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Dual Heritage Harmony: Puja's Journey of Cultural Identity and Empowerment
This episode explores the journey of balancing cultural identity and motherhood through the lens of Puja, who shares her experiences growing up in an immigrant household. As she navigates the challenges of integrating her cultural roots while embodying her Canadian identity, listeners are prompted to reflect on their own stories of identity, representation, and the importance of self-acceptance.
• Puja shares experiences growing up in an immigrant household
• The challenge of balancing cultural heritage and modern life as a mother
• Discussion on the emotional labor of navigating cultural expectations
• Reflection on the need for representation in professional spaces
• The significance of learning to say no to prioritize personal happiness
• Candid dialogue about infertility within cultural contexts
• A call to embrace one's cultural identity and show up authentically
Connect and learn more about Puja @roopcreativeagency
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Find Portia Chambers, founder of The We Experience on Instagram
Join me, portia Chambers, as I sit down with women just like you, sharing moments in their lives that shape them into who they are today Stories of motherhood, betrayal, transformation, love and loss, vulnerable conversations, deep connection and collective healing. Welcome to the this Is we podcast. I am so excited to have our next guest here with us. Pooja is a CEO, brand strategist and mentor at Roop Creative Agency, a branding boutique supporting female entrepreneurs in building authentic, timeless brands through brand development, website design and strategy. With a passion for empowering women and hands-on approach, she creates impactful brand experiences. Pooja is dedicated to guiding businesses through thoughtful branding, all while navigating the beautiful chaos of entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Speaker 1:I am so excited you're here with us today. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, I'm really excited. Well, we've talked a lot off yeah, like I don't want to say off camera, but like off recording and I'm really, really excited to chat with you and hear a little bit of your story. So please share with us what it was like growing up in a immigrant household and how it has shaped you into you know the human you are today, as well as a mother, friend and partner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the thing is. Growing up in an immigrant household, you are constantly in this battle of balance and it is balancing the cultural norms that you inherit through tradition and balancing the cultural norms that you live in. So I was born in Canada, raised in Canada, but my parents are from India and they very much wanted us to engross ourselves in the culture here but still carry on the heritage and finding that fine tune, that magic that balances it all is a lot to put on children and it's not that they put the pressure on. I think we automatically thought that that pressure was there to people. Please and make sure that everyone's happy trying to fit it in a box when you're really not fitting into any.
Speaker 1:Wow, that would be really. That would be really. I'm like even now thinking about it like, oh my gosh, what I wouldn't even imagine what that was like. So do you have, you know, an example? You know it could be current, it could be something from your past that really like hits home for you, that maybe you go back to often.
Speaker 2:I think now, as a mom I'm I'm actually. This is something that I struggle with currently, because I want to pass those things that I grew up with onto my son and I want to give him more of the Canadian culture, because my parents weren't Canadian, they were immigrants. They learned a lot and they were trying to give us as much as they could, but growing up in Canada, I have a different experience from what they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. And so I feel like I want to engross my son into the heritage that I grew up with the culture, but also bring in more of that Canadian culture that I grew up with. And so finding that balance is always the tricky part in not so much like in providing the information, it's more so divvying it up. In providing the information, it's more so divvying it up. So the perfect example is last year the volley fell on November 1st and October 31st is Halloween. So you can only imagine. My sister asked me how are we going to decorate? Because they're kind of polar opposites. Right, one is about beauty and light and, you know, new life, prosperity, and the other one is, you know, dressing up Like, yeah, not. And so it was finding that balance of like. You know, the outside of my house looked like Halloween, but the minute you walked in it was a magical fairy tale in India. So finding those little things that you can do without putting too much pressure on yourself, I think that's that's the hardest part.
Speaker 1:I think that's really beautiful. I love the duality within it and I love how one wasn't sacrificed over the other and I could imagine, like Halloween is very different, yeah, depending on where you go with it, and so it would be a bit of a challenge at that time to you know figure out where it all fits.
Speaker 2:And it's easy for me to say now that it wasn't a sacrifice. But going back like this year, last year wasn't a sacrifice, but the years before I would challenge myself and push myself to do more, and so it almost felt like the glass is half full for one and the glass is half full for the other. But how do I balance it? And you start to feel like you're not doing enough for either Right.
Speaker 1:And is that enough? And is that enough? Feeling like something that you put on yourself, or is there like some sort of external factors, of you know, someone's kind of whispering in your ear, feeling like you are not doing enough?
Speaker 2:I think that that goes back to that whole idea of balance that I grew up with. I just want it. I've never felt like I fit into a certain box. I've never felt like I fit in anywhere. I'm not Indian enough for the Indian people. I'm not, you know, I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood and so I wasn't white enough for my friends, and so there's always that mixture like even just being able to go to school and trying to fit in was a challenge, and that's what challenged me throughout my journey, whether it was, you know, even working in corporate right. I always felt like I had to put my best foot forward, because I'm not just representing me, I'm representing this entire community, for that's not necessarily at the same table, right? So getting a seat at the table is one thing, but then being at that table is a whole other challenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my gosh, like you really right there, put a lot in perspective for me and the weight that that holds on you. I remember my husband telling me my husband's indigenous and I remember him. He grew up in um in Winnipeg, uh, so big indigenous community there, culture there, and um, he felt the same. He was white um for some and you know he was too indigenous for others and so he never could really find this medium of and I think maybe that's why he's maybe a little bit distant from his culture. I think I don't, I don't really know, but um, until you had said that, I never really understood the weight that that would have, especially being a child and not ever really feeling like you do fit in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you go one of each way. Like you mentioned, your husband kind of distanced himself, like I think that people will either engross themselves in one culture or distance themselves from the other and just try to find that ideal of fitting in, right? So I know, for one of my sisters is almost distinct. For her it was distancing herself from one, yeah, right, whereas for my other sister it was like, ok, I want to completely fall into this culture, but that doesn't mean that it's you're giving up on the other, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's the hard part for those people who fit in the boxes to understand yeah, even just the guilt that you might feel, or even the shame of going one way or the other or not finding that balance and feeling, you know, shameful at a specific holiday, that you're not fully in because you know in the back of your mind you're thinking, oh, should I be fully in?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, and I think that that idea of fitting in and being good enough um sits really heavy, especially, like you know, with the way that the world moves and changes and, um, especially entering motherhood, it was a whole other dynamic for me where I felt like, okay, you have the cultural nuances, I have now an entrepreneurship you know I'm an entrepreneur balancing that business. Plus I'm now a new mom and so there's being a new mom in itself fighting with you know, your parents, like you know grandparents will say do this, and you're just trying to find out what kind of mom you want to be and what kind of parent you want to be. But at the same time there's the balance of the cultural nuances and at the same time it's the balance of the business, and so it almost becomes like you are constantly juggling so many different acts at the same time.
Speaker 1:So how did you I don't want to say overcome, but how did you find that balance?
Speaker 2:I started doing this little thing called being selfish.
Speaker 1:I love that Right.
Speaker 2:And so I decided that the best way to move forward and the best thing that I could show my son is me being happy, and I'm going to be honest, the first two years I had him he's three First two years I was not doing this, so this is very new to me is just being selfish in what I want to bring forward. So what brings me joy will show him that this is a really great part of this culture and this is a very great part of this culture right, so not out. You know, constantly trying to do the balancing act, just trying to find what feels good for me instead.
Speaker 1:I really like that. I really and I really like how you said selfish, because I feel like that's a term that's like so tainted in a way where it's like such a bad vibe to it Like you're selfish. Yeah, I really love that because I think it's important to be selfish and I feel like you know this has nothing to do with our conversation, but just something that we had said, you know, before we recorded, where I kind of I'm not going to say what it is now, but you know, letting go of a certain aspect of my life and how that I feel guilty for being selfish, and I actually needed, like permission from two people for them to actually say like okay, no, stop, like just do it for yourself, like it doesn't mean forever just now, and and be selfish in this moment, because if you're not, you're gonna you know it's not gonna feel good, you're not gonna be happy, like you had said.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent and I I will admit that it wasn't like this wasn't something that came to me and like meditation or anything. I needed permission from other people. Yeah, and, and when I realized it, I changed my life completely, like I feel happier, I'm putting myself first, I feel like I'm giving more of me in a really great way. Yeah, for my son to see and he needs to see a powerful woman. He needs to see someone who, who loves her culture but then also loves this culture she grew up into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and not see me struggling to provide both to him and I really think he'll take that with him, like as he grows and yeah, and then he can decide what he wants to do or whatever comes out of that. And so I want to take a few steps back, yes, um, and I want to talk about how, like, how did you overcome not fitting in one box and that could be pertaining to you know, it could be two, it could be a two-sided story in a way you know as a child and then you know as a grown woman yeah, I think as a child it was very difficult.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if I've gotten over it. Yeah not fitting in and that is a lot of healing that I know I'm working on for my inner child. So not fitting in as a child was extremely difficult, but what that did in turn is I think it made me a stronger woman and I wouldn't go back and change anything because of what I have today.
Speaker 2:But not fitting in really pushed me to find my own path yeah and even as I was entering university, is just accepting meet myself for who I am, with little baby steps and I know growing up we talked about this a little bit off camera, like off recording. But it's the whole idea of your name, even just something as simple as your name, right, I would accept any way that anybody wanted to call me, and it was. It goes back to this one story when I was entering elementary school and again I do not blame my parents for this because they were new immigrants. But the principal of the school asked them could you change your name to something easier that everyone could pronounce?
Speaker 2:wow and I absolutely hated that name and I will not mention it on today's podcast. But the minute I got out of elementary school I went back to my traditional name, which is Pooja, and I was just like there is no way somebody else is going to decide to change my name. And like those little things, those little nuances it's like micro, you know, microaggressions almost that really play a powerful role in who you are. So I was pushed into English as a second language, even though English was the only language my parents spoke with us at home, because they wanted us to assimilate into the culture, and so these little things drove me to be passionate, strong headed and a little bit bitchy, I guess you could say, but in a good way. Like I am a powerful woman, and I didn't accept that until I decided to let go of all these things that other people were trying to put onto me.
Speaker 2:I was not that person and they weren't willing to learn who I was, and so, growing up, I pushed myself to do all the appropriate steps, go to university. I pushed myself to do all the appropriate steps go to university, get that corporate job and try to fit in in that corporate job. That's where I learned another lesson where you know again. Growing up in that immigrant household, we were told to work hard. You represent your community. You've got to work hard. You've got to just keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And that's when I started doing some unlearning from my culture. Wow.
Speaker 2:And I had to step back and be like no, no, you're allowed to say no and you're allowed to do other things. And I realized that's where my entrepreneurial journey started, where I just wanted to step outside and showcase my worth, because I wasn't getting it at my corporate job. I wasn't seeing the value in myself at my corporate job, and that's when the entrepreneurship started is I wanted to showcase my value and my worth to people who appreciated it and set the tone to open more doors for people who look like me in those spaces. Wow.
Speaker 1:That's I, I've like there's so many thoughts in my mind.
Speaker 1:I need to take a like a few steps back and go back to your elementary, your young, young self, and as a person that grew up in a very small white community, I could only imagine. I couldn't even imagine what that would feel like, and as a person I wouldn't even have known. Yeah, and as a child obviously innocence wouldn't have known anyways. But even still, just to think I wouldn't have known, I never. You know, our community is now evolving and changing and you know we're getting a lot more cultures in our community, which I absolutely love and appreciate, because you know the stores are changing. You know we have different grocery stores. Now there's opportunities to try different foods, to be immersed into.
Speaker 1:I know it's not all about food, but just be immersed in just the food is such a big one. It kind of it's the. You're like, oh, you know, you're introduced to something that you never would have been introduced to before, and so to me I love it because, like I'm always like people, like you know, people I'm sure know where I live, but you know it was a big hick town and we had a bad rap for it, and so it's nice to see this change in this, like the evolving of our community, and so I couldn't even imagine what that would have been like, you know for, for an adult. Yeah, to do that to a child and not think that that wouldn't change or shape them. Yeah, in in a way, in a hard way, and it's funny because I wasn't angry when it happened.
Speaker 2:I wasn't angry when it happened because I don't think I understood it fully.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now, as an adult, looking back at it, it makes me angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I need to learn to let go of that. Yeah, because that person's not allowed to shape who I am going to be. No.
Speaker 1:They tried and you're like no, no, not today, buddy, not today Exactly. And I would love to talk a little bit more of the unlearning because I've never I've never heard that before, to be completely honest. I feel like I've interviewed quite a few women from different cultures and that was never something that has ever been brought up. How you know what they learn to work harder, to do more, to say yes. All the time like wow, what a, what a pressure to feel, especially when you know inside of yourself like I really don't want to say no, but you know, I've been told I need to say yes yeah, and I think that that's something that it was just embedded in us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we saw both our parents like I saw both my parents working hard yeah and trying to give us all the privilege that they could um finding a good community to live in, finding the best schools, all of this, but at the same time, they never said no to work in a way that um like. For them it was just opportunity, constantly chasing new opportunity and for me. I realized in adulthood that I don't need to constantly chase opportunity.
Speaker 2:Opportunity could come to me too yeah and until I don't say no, the right opportunities aren't going to come. And that was really hard for me, especially as someone who was starting her business. You know you, you want clients. So it's just like more and more and more, and more.
Speaker 2:And I remember my mom being so shocked that I said no to somebody and I told her at that time. We grew up in a household where, although my parents were working a lot, they were always home after school. Oh wow, so they found this. There was this like four around four o'clock, we'd had tea time.
Speaker 2:not everyone had to drink tea, but we all sat down on it on the table and talked about our day and that was a must, and so I told her, if I want to be able to create the opportunities for my future and still have that tea time with my family.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna have to learn how to say no yeah, because obviously, you know, my parents had to be. They were concerned with the bare minimum giving us opportunity, giving us shelter, giving us food. I come into a world where I already have that, I've been taken care of, I can fall back on them, so I'm I almost have this permission to say no, yeah, that they didn't have Right, and so that was the unlearning that I had to do is in order for me to move forward, and you know you've given me this great platform, but how do I elevate it?
Speaker 2:yeah the only way I elevate it is by not saying yes to everything and unlearning almost that hard work and working to the bone mentality like you. Yeah, it's not that I'm not working hard, it's just that I'm choosing the opportunities that I work towards and choosing the life that I want to live and allowing myself to pause and enjoy this.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. Do you remember the first time you said no, oh, yes.
Speaker 2:Because I'm curious. It was just someone who did not respect my work and they made this little comment about oh, just make it pretty. And for me as a woman and as a designer, I just felt like that's not what I do. I bring strategy.
Speaker 2:I bring so much more to each design and each client, because when you almost don't fit into any box, you want to try to get that, get to know each client at a level where I immerse myself in them in a way where I want to be able to build something that they love forever. Yeah, and so that's what my job is. It's not just branding and making designs look pretty. And so when he talked down to me like that and I knew that that contract was not paying, like it was pennies, yeah, I just knew. I just I didn't have to take this. Yeah, I didn't have to take. Being talked to like that. That was not my worth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, just make it pretty. Okay, you don't get what I do, then no, no, I don't just make things pretty. Yeah, I can find you someone that will make it pretty for you.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of people out there that will. But I can tell when people are not taking me seriously, and I think that's something that I got from my childhood is is I have a very strong intuition when I'm not welcomed in a room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's great to have and great to know, because you can immediately be like all right, wash my hands clean of it. Don't have to second guess, Don't have to teeter back and forth. There's no guilt in associating with saying no because you're like I already know, Like I'm sure of this. It's kind of freeing in a sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course, and that's where the unlearning comes right, yeah. Is, I don't have to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there any? Did you take the? I want to say like that same analogy of saying no, do you? Did you, you know, embed that or incorporate that in like your personal life? I'm trying to Okay.
Speaker 2:And I think that's where that's where it becomes hard, because you know, we grew up in these communities and we grew up Family was very important. Family always came first and there are some circumstances where family could be wrong too. Yeah, right, and I think that this I faced a lot with a lot of when I was in going through my infertility journey and today I have my son. But there was a lot of ups and downs and for me, being in this culture, in especially the Indian culture, we don't talk about these things. Yeah, and I know, as a society as a whole, we don't talk about these things, but especially in, I think, the Indian community, it was not an open book topic. Yeah, and I needed it to be, because that was the only way I knew how to solve my problems was talking to the people around me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I almost took the responsibility of helping others unlearn and if they weren't willing to.
Speaker 2:I realized this is where I need to draw a boundary, and those boundaries I find are harder when you come from a small knit community. Yeah, because there has been such an importance placed on the elders of the community. Yeah, the um staying, you know, ensuring that you are always acting the right way, um, not offending anybody, and something as simple as me trying to share personal facts about our infertility journey could offend somebody, right, which seems appalling right now. But yeah, in three years, society has changed a lot too. Like we have a lot more people talking about this now, but that wasn't the case when I was, when I was personally going through it, and I love that it's changing.
Speaker 2:But that's how I kind of embedded that aspect of unlearning in my own culture. And I know sometimes my husband, my husband I say like I'm the storm, he's the calm, and so sometimes he'll be like you know what? Why are you even like working? You're getting all worked up on this person. And my response to him one time and I will never forget this is it's not to teach that one person in our culture. It's so that if anybody else in that room feels this way, they know they can come to me, even if I haven't spoken to them before. Yeah Right, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:Opening those doors. Yeah Right, that's powerful, so just opening those doors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Leading by example, in a way being like I'm here, Exactly. Wow, that would be hard and I think do they not want to talk about it because it, like you said, like makes people uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Is it just because other people might have went through that and they just like uncomfortable in that way, or just I think everything like there's just hush topics, like you don't need to tell everybody everything, there's also this like crazy concept of the evil eye, which is called um nuzzer in my culture, and it's you don't share the good, you don't share the bad, you don't share anything, just in case the evil eye is going to come get you. Wow, right, and it's. The evil eye is something that can come from anybody, even your own mother, right? So you know, there's no compliments, there's no, and that's a lot of unlearning to do too right even my parents like hey, sometimes I need to hear you've done a good job, like yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm proud of you. Yeah, not that I'm seeking their validation, it's just nice to hear sometimes. It is nice to hear sometimes right. And so I remember when I had my son, my sisters, he's the first born grandchild and so that was a special time.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, my, I'm like I don't want to spoil him. It's very hard. But my sister was just looking at him and she's like, oh, my God, he's got the most beautiful eyes, and just like saying all these things and I was just like it warmed my heart and my mom's like, okay, stop now, you don't want the evil eye to come on him. Him and my sister in that moment stopped her and she's like, listen, I am his aunt and there is no freaking way that I'm gonna give an evil eye to this child.
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna compliment him as much as I can and that's where it ends right change in culture yeah, wow, yeah, but being the first grandson, that's so fun.
Speaker 2:I know so cute, he's very, very spoiled.
Speaker 1:It's all areas, it's not just things.
Speaker 2:Attention love, it's mostly attention. I would say Like it's not because things I can control, things I feel like you know, even on his like wish list and whatnot, I'm always just like experiences, please, and they'll all follow those rules. But then, yeah, I will try to have an adult conversation with somebody and they'll just be like, oh, he wants us right now, so see you later. All the attentions. He has two hands, both their husbands, give him all the attention, and then on top of it, my parents, and then he's the first grandchild on my husband's side as well. So there was no winning for us.
Speaker 2:Oh, he'll love it tell him, he just needs to soak it all up.
Speaker 1:My daughter was the first and she's still the only grandchild, and so she, oh, she was like the performer, she put on a performance all the time and she's like just had me my crown. Yeah, and I'm like I kind of was kind of the same, like stop, she doesn't, like we can't give her that much attention at home, like I have to like live too. I'm selfish too, I'm trying to coexist. Yeah, I'm like, oh, my god, and then it balances all out at the end of the day, but it's, it's cute, they're so treasured.
Speaker 1:I've met your daughter. She's incredible. Yeah, she's. Yeah, she's pretty cool. It didn't inflate her ego too much.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, Not at all, Not at all.
Speaker 1:I think it like you fear that, but it also gives confidence too it does, and I think it's it's you know for myself, um, and now this is like. So we like took a turn, but that's fine. Um, I think like I grew up with uncles and everything like that, but I never got the same attention that, like my brothers gave my daughter and that same bond and that same thing, and so to me I was just like fine, like my. When she was like one, I think she was like she could start walking at one, but she still fooled my younger brother because I, my daughter's so young, so my brother's like my brother was like one, I think she was like she could start walking at one, but she still fooled my younger brother because I, my daughter's so young, so my brother's like my brother was like 18 and became an uncle.
Speaker 1:I'm 22 and became an uncle, so like they were just young kids too and yeah, so manipulated by her, and like he would like, you know, and he's like six foot and she's like this little thing and he would like hold her hands and help her walk. And I'm looking at him like, oh, my goodness, you know she can walk right and he's just like it doesn't matter yeah, let me just baby her now, and I'm just like you guys are hilarious yeah, like gobble it up and it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was so cute to see that bond and because I just I never got that you as a kid you know, my life was kind of kids were seen, not heard, like that's. There wasn't a lot of kids Like when I grew up, it was just my myself and my two brothers. We didn't have any cousins. It wasn't until I was like 16 that we got cousins and you know I'm already too old and not too old, but you know, I'm already living my life life.
Speaker 2:You're like I'm out of here, bye, yeah, whatever enjoy.
Speaker 1:Like my cousins are two years different than, um, my daughter. Oh wow, yeah, so they're more closer to like my daughter than they are to me, and so it's just. It's interesting so when you say that they're just like all the attentions on your side yeah. I just love that and yeah, my girlfriend just got uh, just had a baby and so now I'm like, oh my god, I can love that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, my girlfriend just got, just had a baby. And so now I'm like, oh my God, I can do that and give her all the attention and have that love, because I just, you know, when you don't get it as a kid, it's nice, you want to give it as an adult 100%, and I think that that's that it kind of goes back to what we're talking about, because, remember, being told to like stay quiet, like you know, and that's I don't think that that's a cultural thing.
Speaker 2:I think that's the thing against women, um, is that we should not be so passionate. No, um, we should be more quiet and we should just smile and nod and continue. And I was never that kid. I was never that kid. Um, I think the minute I turned 13, I decided to rebel against that and to date, I feel like, you know, there are people who will tell me to like just calm down. Yeah, and it's just not something I want to do, and I want my son to have the ability to say whatever he wants to say, and tomorrow, if I have a daughter, I want to give her the same, yeah, the ability to speak up and, and you know, if she wants the attention or if he wants the attention, like you should have the confidence to be like, yeah, I want it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll listen to it and be like, yeah, give me more Give me more.
Speaker 1:Just like you are as a toddler, you should go into your adulthood like that too Exactly, and I think, yeah, we shy away from it and I think it becomes like you know you're conceited or you have a big ego and I think you know there's a, there's a fine line, there's a delicate dance, I think, between all of it and understanding. You know I like the attention because of X. You know, you know I like the attention because I need the validation and this is what brings me in. It's like I like the attention because it makes me feel proud of myself. It makes me feel like I'm doing the right things and you know it's hard but I'm working, like you had said, like a compliment feels nice, yes, like I'm proud of you. Look at where you've come Like. Look at all the hurdles that you've overcome. It's like okay, thanks for recognizing that.
Speaker 2:I almost think that, like we have to brag a little bit about ourselves too, right, like we have to give ourselves permission to say that. And that's something that I've learned this year, where I have been sitting in a lot of crowds where I feel like I could be on stage teaching, yeah, and I should be. Um, you know, I should be going on this podcast and speaking because I could speak to these points, yeah, and that feeling just wasn't going away. And it's funny because I brought it up with my business mentor and her response immediately was like you are talented, you are doing this, so why aren't you? Yeah, and it's. You have to get over that hurdle. And that's what I'm working on this year is getting over that hurdle and putting myself out there bragging a little bit about myself, but in a way that feels genuine to me, like, yeah, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I'm also saying that I am worth your attention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I can agree with you. I have a hard time like talking myself up. I'm like, yeah, anything, and it's certain things it's not everything, like for the we Experience and things like that. Like I know I could put in an amazing event, like I know I can create an experience from start to finish, but like I can't brag about that, like I'm not I don't know, because I'm just like I don't know there could be better people out there. But you get me going about my bagels Like people are like these are phenomenal and I will literally respond.
Speaker 1:I know like I know they are like this bread is delicious. I know like you don't have to tell me twice, like so confident in that realm, but then it's because it's a product versus a service. I think it is a product and I think it's detached from me. So like, yeah, it is a product, it's detached, I made it with my hands. I know it's good type of thing and I think I. The thing is, I can experience eating a piece of bread. I can experience a bagel. I can't experience my events.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that's where it goes into service, and I think a lot of service providers probably have that problem and that's where, like, I can experience what I provide to my clients. Yeah Right, and sometimes, reading back testimonials, I was like, oh really, this happened. Yeah, I did that, but it's hard, as society has always taught us, to stay quiet. Yeah, don't talk about these things. And then, going back to the cultural aspect of it, is the whole idea of Nazar, again the evil eye, like don't talk about the good things because then it'll all be snatched away from you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. And so I had this cultural upbringing that told me not to do this, not to brag. And then society as a whole has told me, as a woman, I need to, you know, stay within this box. And here I am trying to like, scream and be like I deserve these opportunities, but I have to believe that too. Yeah, that's really hard for me to get over.
Speaker 1:I always say like my biggest um was it two years ago. My biggest thing I tried to learn was to see myself how other people saw me. Yes, because it was really really hard, and I think it was kind of like I don't want to say at the height of the we experience, because I feel like we're always at a height, but you know what I mean. Like it was probably like after an event and and like every like there was lots of compliments and testimonials. I send out surveys after and all of these different things and you're reading through them and I'm like why you know, like my husband would be like say things to me and I'm like, really, you see me like that and they're like beautiful, positive amazing things and I'm like really, yeah, you like that.
Speaker 1:He's like yes, portia, I fucking see you like that. Why? Why are you sitting here second guessing yourself? And I was like I don't know, I don't see myself like that and it could be like you're so kind-hearted, you're such a good friend and I'm like really.
Speaker 2:I don't know and it's, it's hard, it's taught it's taught to us right yeah, like we're taught to be almost submissive, submissive a little bit right.
Speaker 2:Um, you know it's hard. It's hard when we don't see those positions of power, and I do think that our generation is taking more of that. Yes, we are taking up more space and we are being louder, but we didn't get to see a lot of this. And I know, know, I I met this one woman who is of the same culture as me and she said to me like she's like, doesn't it feel difficult to always be the first one in the room? Wow, and that sat with me real heavy, because there have been moments where I will walk into rooms, take a deep breath and, as a person of color, you do look around to see how many other people are there, and it's just something that I do, like intuitively.
Speaker 2:Now, um, and it's, it's difficult because sometimes you don't always feel safe, you don't. You feel like you're not the smartest person in the room, and I do have this like imposter syndrome of like, am I supposed to be here? What's my worth? And so, yes, I'm this confident, powerful woman on one end, but sometimes, going into those rooms, I'm just like, okay, this person might know more. And the cultural aspect growing up in that immigrant household comes in to play there too, where the unlearning has to happen, where I have to tell myself no, I'm worth being here, I can speak up. I should be on this stage and that's, I think, the hardest part of it all where taking that switch and turning it off right. As a child, I was told, like you know, you need to be on your best behavior.
Speaker 2:We don't have being a person of color, you don't have the privilege of messing up yeah right and that's the hard part is like you almost shy away from opportunity because you don't want to mess it up for everyone else wow, I'm kind of yeah. I'm stunned, to be honest and feel a little ignorant.
Speaker 1:To be honest, no, you shouldn't, I shouldn't, but that is something that I would never think about. That is something that I would never walk into a room, being a white person who has blonde hair, you know, and I would never, um, you know, and I would never, never in my mind ever think that, yeah, that would never be a concern, and I'm so grateful that you brought that up, because it's something that I can take forth with me and, you know, make sure that everyone feels well, and I this is something that I do at every single event to me.
Speaker 1:I try you know, I try not to see any. I really don't like, I don't want to. I feel like people say this sounds ignorant too, but I really don't. I try not to see anything. I try not to see age, I try not to see race. You know, I try to appreciate everybody for who they are, as their individual. I'm not trying to make everybody the same, because I don't want that either.
Speaker 2:That's not fun, but I do think that you're you're aware of it, I'm yeah and you're welcoming, and so that is something that I will compliment you on, since we are talking about compliments too is I do think you're aware of it and you do make people feel welcome, and I felt welcome at all your events and like, even just as simple as like hey, pooja, how do you pronounce your name? Yeah, something like that. It's so simple and it just makes somebody feel at ease, right, you're allowing them to come into a space as they are, yeah, and saying, hey, let me feel like you, let me help you feel more comfortable yeah, and I'm so happy you brought that up because we did talk a little bit about it off camera.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um, that's like a big worry of mine because I don't want to mispronounce anybody's name and I'm, once again, didn't grow up with a lot of culture around me so I'm not familiar with different names or anything like that. So, like I said before, like I literally, if I don't know how to say the name, I literally go in google and have google tell me how to say it and also which literally go in Google and have Google tell me how to say it and also which. I think, is awesome.
Speaker 1:Repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and then I'll type it out how I think I should say it, like how I read it, like how I hear it and then read it, and sometimes Google's right.
Speaker 2:And sometimes Google is wrong and I have been there and like I think that it's so nice that you're doing the pre-work, like you're doing the research, going into it, but then you still ask I still ask, yeah, and I think that that's really important, and for me, I do the same thing, like I don't know how to pronounce everyone's name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and so the first thing I will say if I see a name that I can't pronounce is I just don't want to butcher it. Can you please, please, help me? Yeah, say your name, and so I think that that's really important, but something that my dad would always say is like a car salesman will never forget how to pronounce your name. Oh, they want something from me.
Speaker 2:They want something he's like. You know people who don't want something from you they will always mispronounce it. But he, he's like. Anytime I've gone into a dealership, they've never mispronounced my name.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a perspective shifts in all areas. Yeah, oh my gosh, because well my name's like common, not common, but it gets and it's not spelt how you say it.
Speaker 1:So it gets butchered quite often and I correct people, and now I I am going to pick up on the people that just continuously say it wrong yes, because they shouldn't, yeah yeah we're tia. I'm like. I'm always like. Do you think someone would name their child that? Where do you think this stems from? Like? Yeah yeah, porta was another one. I was like, oh wow, do you think like I'm? Yeah, sometimes I just answer and then sometimes it's like really bad, and I've already corrected them a few times.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's porsche, yeah, yeah it also depends, like if it's starbucks, I'm like I'm moving on I don't care, I'm like my name is porsche.
Speaker 1:I'm like spell, spell it however way you think that person down there is going to say it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:I've got in.
Speaker 2:Puma Buja like all sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I worked in the restaurant.
Speaker 2:That's the one that always gets me because I'm just like there's no M.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard once I heard that the misspelling your name was a marketing tactic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do believe that. I do believe that too. I believe that yeah yeah, yeah. I think that they're just doing it because, like, look at us here now we're talking about exactly yeah and free advertising it's free and they never have commercials.
Speaker 1:They're like one of the only companies that don't have commercials, and it's all and I swear I saw I read that and this was like years ago. Yeah, um that, that that's what it was, and and I was like that's smart, yeah, it's brilliant, it's brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 2:I'll just share it on your socials or tell somebody else like oh, yeah, oh, I know, because I know there used to be a Starbucks next to my corporate job and every time I'd go and I take a picture and send it to all my friends, like this is what my name is today, so it's always like it was a fun thing to do. Now I think it's all like through the app, but like, yeah, it's um, it's really wild to me, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny. Oh, oh, my gosh. Okay, so we're going to end here, but I do have one question for you, and this doesn't have to be about the topic, like what we had talked about. It could be about anything. Um, what is, what is one piece of advice that you would like to leave here with everybody today?
Speaker 2:um, I would say show up as you are. I like that. I think that a lot of women and then women of color. I can only speak to my experiences, so anything I've even said in this podcast is based on my personal experiences. I'm not speaking for the generalization of the entire community or even women of color, but I do believe that all of us need to show up just as we are, and the acceptance of culture and color and race and all that's going to happen if we continue to show up and be kind and and show all the beauty that diversity does bring.
Speaker 1:I love that and I'm here for all of it because I would love more of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thank you, because I think that it's important to thank you for allowing someone like me to be on this platform, because that shows how we're changing right. You're you're giving space for me to share my story too for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you. This is such a lovely conversation. I've learned so much honestly and like my eyes are way more open now than they were at the beginning of this conversation that makes my heart happy.
