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THIS IS WE
Melissa's Transformative Quest for Personal Growth and Family Balance
What happens when a sister's vision for a spiritual journey collides with unexpected family dynamics? Join me, Portia Chambers, as I unravel Melissa's captivating story of personal growth and boundary-setting during a transformative trip to the Southwest. As an inspiring entrepreneur, Melissa shares the turmoil and triumphs of navigating family relationships and staying true to one's intentions, even when faced with difficult choices like her brother's request to bring his girlfriend on their planned retreat. Through this narrative, we touch on the courage it takes to embrace change and maintain clarity amidst family challenges.
Have you ever found yourself caught between the desire to support loved ones and the need to take care of yourself? Our conversation with Melissa explores the complex emotional landscape of setting boundaries within family dynamics. From the stress of mediating a conflict to the relief found in moments of solitude, we discuss the necessity of nonviolent communication and self-awareness. Melissa's journey highlights the power of acknowledging emotions and making self-aware decisions, illustrating how these practices contribute to healthier interactions and personal empowerment.
Navigating friendships and relationships is no small feat, especially when it's time to say goodbye. In our discussion, we explore the varying approaches to ending relationships and the importance of closure in personal growth. Melissa shares the liberation that comes from aligning actions with personal values and setting boundaries that prioritize self-care. We examine the role of self-reflection in learning from past relationships and the empowering effect of staying true to oneself. This episode invites you to discover how embracing self-awareness and committing to personal goals can lead to a more authentic and fulfilling life.
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Join me, Portia Chambers, as I sit down with women just like you, sharing moments in their lives that shaped them into who they are today Stories of motherhood, betrayal, transformation, love and loss, Vulnerable conversations, deep connection and collective healing. Welcome to the this Is we podcast. I am so excited to have our next guest here with us, Melissa. Melissa and I go way back Welcome to the this Is we podcast, circled back and here we are doing a little interview together, so I am so excited that Melissa is here. Throughout her entrepreneurial journey, Melissa has remained dedicated to helping high vibe women evolve into their next level self with ease. After years in the yoga industry, Melissa was guided to step off the mat and into the depths of rewiring the nervous system, to rewire your life. When she's not working with one-on-one clients, you can find her tucked away in her forested property with her husband, dogs and cats. Melissa loves having balance between life, work and hobbies and is continuously pushing beyond her own boundaries to expand into her next level. Welcome, Melissa.
Speaker 2:Thank you, so excited to be here. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited about our topic today and the story that you're going to be sharing, and we chatted, like literally just before we came on here, about the story. Well, I don't even know what the story is, but it's a story that you haven't shared before, and so I always feel so special when I am like gifted that opportunity to listen to it for the second time, because you have shared it once with your husband, but the second time, and I'm just really, really excited. So why don't you all stop talking and you can share your story? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Amazing. So I was thinking of a story that I could share around really overcoming, like our own battles, and especially when it comes to people pleasing, when it comes to wanting to be the good girl, because I know that that tends to be like a thread that has woven throughout so many women that I've encountered both on and off the yoga mat of just wanting to please and take care of everybody but themselves. And I dug fairly deep for this one, because it is a story that is kind of personal, a little vulnerable, and digs into some family stuff, and I was like, ooh, do I go there? But I was like you know what, let's just do it. So several years ago I traveled to the Southwest in the state so Utah, new Mexico, colorado and Arizona with my brother and a group of women who went. So my brother was the one who actually coordinated the entire trip for us, had everything set up, and it was an absolutely incredible experience. It was more based around like a spirit quest, personal development, really diving deep into ourselves, and there was one particular day where it's like we weren't allowed to talk at all from sunup to sunset, even though we're all like together. So like just pushing boundaries and having us go really deep within, and it was absolutely beautiful. So towards the end of I think we were there for like 10 days and towards the end of it the women said to my brother and to me they were like you know, you two offset each other's energy so beautifully Like I'm just very grounded, very soft, my brother's a bit more out there and loud, and they were like you two should think about co-creating this trip and doing it together. And so I just kind of giggled and was like, oh well, that's a fun idea, okay, whatever. And then brushed it off, right, no big deal. And after the trip had wrapped up, my brother actually approached me and was like, hey, like I've been thinking about what they said, did you want to do that with me for next year? And I had like butterflies in my stomach and I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. Like, yes, I wanted to do this. How incredible, right, and the fact that I get to do it with my brother, which was just special because we've always been really close.
Speaker 2:And so fast forward a few months and I'm out for dinner with my brother, my husband and my brother's girlfriend at the time, and my brother said to me he's like, hey about this trip? Why don't we go away somewhere in October, just the two of us? You know we'll go somewhere tropical, because I know you want the heat, and we'll spend an entire week. We're going to plan out this trip, start to finish, have everything, like we're going to crush it in a week so we can just come back launch it. Everything's set up. And I was like I love that idea, instead of just you know, kind of like leisurely going at it, like let's dive in head first. And so my brother being the incredible planner that he is, he found some beautiful tropical place for us to go, found the Airbnb, like set everything up for us, and about 48 hours before the trip, he calls me and he's like hey, is it cool if my girlfriend comes with us? I was like, oh, and I was kind of taken back a bit because I was like well, I thought we were going for, like this very clear intention of just co-creating and I was like you know what?
Speaker 2:It might be a really good experience, though, having somebody else with a different perspective bringing her creativity forward as well. So it's like you know what? There was a lot of hesitation, but I was like, why not? Let's do it, that's fine. So here I am feeling super hesitant about the whole thing, but I'm like convincing myself that it's the right move, that I've got this.
Speaker 2:And I went to get my luggage out and I opened the closet door and I have the most beautiful, like colorful, luggage. So it's like it's obvious, it's mine at the airport. And so I pull out the luggage and as I grab it, something fell down and I don't remember what it was and it smacked me on the top of the head so hard that I was like holy shit, okay, I needed to sit down for a minute and take a breath. Like that freaking hurts. And I was sitting on the floor and I was like okay, like is this a sign? And then I'm was like okay, melissa, you're being an idiot. Like just stop, stop trying to make something. Always mean things, right, yeah. So I pushed it aside and I'm like I got this, I got this Pack, all my stuff ready to go.
Speaker 2:So next thing, you know, I'm sitting on the plane my head's still a little bit sore from being smacked that hard and I sat beside this incredible lady where it was her home country we were flying to, she was telling me all the things that I needed to do and I was like, okay, feeling really reassured. I'm like, hey, I got this, I got this, we're good. So we land in our destination and we're standing in line and, you know, I walk up and I've traveled a lot so I walk up feeling, you know, fairly confident. I'm like I got this hand, the guy, my passport. All of a sudden he starts asking me all these questions. I'm like, I'm like I've never been questioned at the airport before. So like a full panic mode sets in, right, I'm like, oh, my god, he's gonna tell me I can't come into their country and all of this stuff. So I'm like sweating, my heart's racing, and I'm like trying to like keep my composure. And you know, like I got this, melissa, I'm good. Anyways, finally make it through. I check, I guess, all of his questions and he lets me go. So I go and there's my fabulous luggage sitting there, all bright and colorful. I'm like, oh, we're good, we're good, got my luggage, let's go.
Speaker 2:So we're rolling it out at the airport, walk outside and it's like not a cloud in sight, super hot, like the Caribbean breeze, like everything. Right, it was just that moment of like oh, we're here, everything is good, okay. So thankfully I didn't make that bump on the head mean something that it wasn't, and all of this other stuff. And so we're walking confidently over to the car rental place and my brother disappears inside for a few minutes and me and his girlfriend are outside chatting and at this point they're fairly new in their relationship, so I still don't really know her all that well. So it's kind of that like feeling her out and like what are you into? And those kind of awkward conversations you have with people at the beginning. And then my brother walks back out and it was kind of like okay, cool, we can stop being awkward.
Speaker 2:So we load our stuff in the car and none of us have been to this country before and so my brother's driving and he's dodging these potholes and when I say potholes, I'm not talking like potholes in Toronto, I'm talking like freaking craters in the row. So he's doing an incredible job right, swerving around them, going kind of fast and laughing. And next thing, you know, we hit a pothole and the car takes a bit of air, came down hard and all we hear is that like, and we're like shit, a flat tire like, and we're like shit, a flat time. So we're now far enough from the airport that we're on like some random quiet road. We're super hilly, there's like really nowhere to pull over. So my brother pulls into somebody's driveway but then kind of onto their grass and it was all like barricaded walls and you know kind of third world country feel, which is normal, yeah. And so we're out there and there's no spare tire, nothing in the car to change the tire. We're like oh my god. So of course now my mind starts going again of like, oh my god, this was a mistake. What have I done? I should have listened to that bump on that and not got on the plane.
Speaker 2:So we're on the side of the road and my brother's finally like okay, we're calling the rental place. They're not picking up. We're like we don't know how to get ahold of like a tow truck in this country. So my brother calls the guy that we rented the Airbnb from and he tells him what's happened. So the guy's like oh well, I'll just come pick you guys up. So next thing he shows up, picks us up, drives us back to the rental place, and the rental place was basically like too bad, not our problem. So the Airbnb guy is like you know what, screw them, I'll just drive you to the Airbnb. And when you guys need to go back to the airport, just call me and I'll drive you there. So we're like, okay, well, now our plans are kind of shifted because we don't have a car anymore to get around, but that's fine.
Speaker 2:By the time we get to the Airbnb it's dark and there's like bars on the windows, kind of scary, like super uncomfortable feeling. So we walk in the house and of course we're like checking the rooms, like is somebody hiding in here? Like it's so uncomfortable, so like everything checks out, it's fine. We're like double check, double checking that the front door is locked, the back door, like okay, we're secured here for the night, like close the blinds. It was very, very uncomfortable. And so we're finally like okay, oh, we have made it. The first day that was crap, but it's going to be okay from here on out. It has to be. So we turn on the TV and we're scrolling. We find just some random movie to watch and I'm on one couch, my brother and his girlfriend are on the other couch and next thing they're like hardcore, like making out.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, okay, this is really uncomfortable, what is going on here? So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna leave. I'm going to my bedroom, I'll call my husband, fill him in on this fabulous day that we're. So I go do my own thing and I'm like, hey, maybe this is just like I don't know them, de-stressing, who knows. So next morning, wake up, do my yoga practice. Again, I'm trying to convince myself that I made the right move, because there's still a lot of hesitation, a lot of red flags, and I'm trying not to build a story around anything. So I go downstairs and there they are in the kitchen, like all over each other. So I was like, okay, guys, we need to have a conversation about boundaries right now, because this is really awkward for me. So we had this conversation, they agreed, you know, like okay, like we'll just wait until we're in our bedroom at night, that kind of thing, cool. So we go through that day.
Speaker 2:That day everything was actually kind of normal. It was pretty good. We went down to the beach, just hung out, and I said to my brother I was like okay. So like when are we diving into the planning phase? Like that's why I'm here, let's do this. I'm really excited about this trip to the Southwest and he's like there's no rush, we have a lot of time down here. And I'm like I feel like my blood starting to boil, cause I'm like I came down here for a reason. Okay, I've had to like convince myself every step of the way to be here and everything inside of me is screaming like go. So I'm like, take a breath, this isn't about me the next day. So now we're on. What is it like? Morning two and we're just hanging out in the kitchen making dinner or making breakfast, rather, everything is like have to be sent, and then all of a sudden, my brother's girlfriend says something and next thing they're bickering. And I'm like, oh my god, like what is happening? So, being the people pleaser, like let's make everybody feel good around here, I instantly go into like trying to diffuse the situation, you know, trying to give them a different perspective as to, like where she's coming from, where he's coming from. Let's change the topic Right, doing everything that I can, and by this point I'm like I am mentally and physically and emotionally exhausted from this roller coaster that started like two days before this trip even began, and so it was at that point when I'm like, okay, I need to separate myself from this and just go outside and take a breath and really tune back into myself.
Speaker 2:Because I felt like I just kind of like let myself go at that point, like I hadn't meditated. I did a couple of yoga practices, but nothing as deep as I would normally do. So I went outside and I mean it's beautiful, right, the blue skies, the sunshine, the breeze, like everything, the salt in the air whenever you're inhaling. So I'm like, okay, let's just turn this back on me. So I plugged into my coach at the time, who was personal development and all very much about like, feel your feelings. So I plugged into my coach at the time, who was personal development and all very much about like, feel your feelings, and I'm like.
Speaker 2:I don't want to feel them anymore.
Speaker 2:This is too much. But you know, I'm listening to one of her trainings and I'm going through it and again trying to convince myself I'm doing the right thing. So my brother comes outside and starts questioning, like what I'm doing and all of this? I'm like, hey, you're taking away my peace right now, like I literally need to recharge myself, because the shit I've been dealing with with you guys it's just, it's very uncomfortable. So, by the third morning, I was like I woke up in the morning and everything inside of me was screaming like sorry for this, but it was. I was like I woke up in the morning and everything inside of me was screaming like sorry for this, but it was screaming like get the fuck out, yeah. And the other part of me, though, was like but I can't do that Right.
Speaker 2:And then I went into the story of like but then I'm going to be abandoning my brother here, and we agreed to come down here for a reason, and I knew if I left, that that trip to the Southwest was going to be like gone. And so I was still kind of hanging on to that and hanging on to like okay, but if I stay, then you know, like maybe I can repair my relationship with my brother Cause it's gone kind of wonky during this trip. And so I was having this like hardcore, like inner battle back and forth of like I want to be that sister that he's always had, up to this point where I'm very supportive, you know, put him first, do whatever I can to help him. But the other part of me was just like enough is enough, like I can't keep doing this. And so I was sitting there with literally it felt like tug of war back and forth in my mind as to like what the hell am I going to do? And then I was making it logical, right, because I started to look into plane tickets and I'm like, well, the cost to leave is the cost of the entire week here. Like am I insane to spend that much money? Right, so it's like the logical came into it.
Speaker 2:But every time I was listening to myself it was literally like you need to get out of here, and it it just it broke my heart the fact that I felt like I was, if I left, that it was the end of such a close relationship with my brother, and I was like holy crap. But I listened to myself and I was like you know, I just I can't. So I booked the ticket. And as soon as I told my brother I booked the ticket, you could just feel the whole dynamics change between us and I was like he got. It was almost like this wall went up and I was like, okay, and so then the last few hours, as I'm like waiting for the cab to come get me and take me to the airport, I'm like this is so uncomfortable, I just want to go sit in the airport by myself right now. I want to be by myself.
Speaker 2:So the cab came and picked me up and it was. It was kind of a sketchy drive back. Like, looking back, it was one of those things where he's driving and all of a sudden he's like oh there's my friend over there, do you mind if we go pick him up? And next thing this guy's sitting like behind me and I'm like what the hell is about to happen? Like I was so nervous and I'm like please just take me to the airport, like I'm gonna make it obviously a day because I'm here. Yes, it's fine. They were totally cool. Like got me to the airport and I'm so used to Toronto. Right, I show up like three hours early. I was like the only person in the airport. Like I don't even care.
Speaker 2:At this point I was like this is the most relaxed I have been on this whole trip. Oh my gosh. So there was no direct flight home. So of course I got laid over in another Caribbean destination, but it was like a four hour layover and I will never forget when I landed there, clearing customs and just going and having to wait those four hours, and I just walked outside and found grass and I just sat down. And when I sat down, I just burst into tears and I was like, oh my God, like what did I just do? Did I make the right decision?
Speaker 2:And then it was a lot of self-doubt that came up with that as to like, did I just like completely destroy my relationship with my brother? Like how is how are things going to be going forward? And I just sat and I bawled my eyes out for the for the longest time and like people are walking past and, I'm sure, looking at me as I'm like sniffling and like ugly crying and everything wiping the tears away. But once I stopped crying it was like the deepest peace that I had ever experienced up to that point and I was like holy crap, like as much as I questioned the whole time I was on that vacation, like should I be here? This is the worst decision I've ever made. I should have listened to that bump on the head, like if I listened to that, everything else would be different.
Speaker 2:But I realized when I was sitting with that piece it's like that was the exact trip that I needed in order to confront those parts of myself. Because if it hadn't been so uncomfortable and with somebody who I was so close with, I don't think I would have had the strength to finally stand up for myself and be like I can't continue to people, please, like. It's literally just like destroying my relationship with myself, my inner peace, everything else. And I think that's why I had such deep peace in that moment, because it was the first time where I was like, oh my god, I can have boundaries and respect myself and not worry about other people and what the stories that he was probably sharing about me or what he made it mean. I was like, and it's okay if somebody thinks I'm a bitch or if somebody thinks that, you know, I've wronged them in some way because I chose to listen to what I needed to for my own health and my own sanity.
Speaker 2:So when I got back to Canada that was a very long day with the layovers and everything else and I got back to Canada and I was like, oh my God. And I was like I have never been so excited to be back in cold weather. Before the plane landed it was pouring rain. I was like I don't even care. This is amazing, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was quite the adventure. Needless to say, we never did plan that trip to the Southwest together. We've never traveled together since and our relationship has forever, forever changed. And as hard as that was for me because me and my brother have always been insanely close growing up, everything else that was a really, really tough relationship to shift. But now, years later, I can actually sit in gratitude and be like if we hadn't had that connection and if I hadn't had to break that connection for my own, my own well being, I definitely wouldn't be in the space that I'm in now. So I am so grateful, as messed up as that vacation was, so grateful that I had that experience.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, okay. So first of all, I was not thinking that that was where the story was going to go.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad I could surprise you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like oh my gosh, there's so many questions, so many things I want to ask. Was there ever okay? So my first question that came top of mind was was there in the aftermath of arriving home and then your brother gets home was there ever a moment where you felt like like really compelled, like I need to fix this?
Speaker 2:Ooh, yes, absolutely when I was like I wanted our relationship to go back to what it was prior to all of that. Yes, so yes, but even though I wanted that, I never initiated having a conversation with him. Like, when we got back, we didn't actually talk about our perspectives of what went down. It's just kind of like we didn't talk for the longest time and then the first time I saw him was probably at, like you know, like Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever. It would have been actually Christmas, cause it was at the end of October that I got back. So, yeah, and I was kind of like, is this going to be awkward? Like you know, whenever we see each other, we'd always give each other a big hug, and I'm like of like, is this going to be awkward? Like you know, whenever we see each other, we'd always give each other a big hug and I'm like, do I hug him?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, Like all of those do I make it awkward by not hugging, or is it awkward if I hug him? And so, like I was making up all these scenarios in my head and Andrew, my husband, was like just relax, like everybody's going to be there, you know he's not going to say anything to you, like it's fine. And so when I went walking in, we didn't actually talk to each other for the longest time, like we were in the same room interacting with everybody.
Speaker 2:But, it really wasn't, until I laughed and I walked over and just gave him a hug and I was like, okay, it wasn't that bad, it definitely wasn't what it was prior to, like how much we would laugh and joke around together.
Speaker 1:The relationship really shifted yeah, oh my gosh, I could. I couldn't even imagine that, I don't know. The moment when you said the girlfriend was coming, I was like, oh, this is not gonna be good, not because, like the girlfriend, it's just the intention immediately changed. I couldn't imagine being in that situation and not necessarily having a fast exit, because it does require planning to get out of there, and especially at the beginning of the trip, with everything going wrong and then and then kind of being almost confronted with their relationship in a way where you now have, or almost like you had, to confront their relationship just because of your own personal boundaries.
Speaker 1:And I don't know like I would be like first day I'd be like, okay, I think I'm just going to leave, but I imagine it would be very, very hard to be. You know I want to leave and actually I'm shocked, to be honest, that you left Like I probably would have just stayed there and stood in it and then had a, you know, a terrible vacation and, you know, was mad the entire time and complained about the whole thing the entire time or sat there anxious Like are we ever going to talk about what we came here for? I don't want to sound like I'm constantly like nagging the entire time. So yeah, like I couldn't even imagine, you know, being in all of those emotions, at the same time being in a place where you can't literally just like dip out when you're ready to go.
Speaker 2:Right, it was very challenging, like literally one of the most challenging situations I've ever been in, for that exact reason. It's not like I could just be, like you know, in Canada I could be like, hey, screw you guys, I'm getting in my car and driving home. Yeah, there, it was like no, I was literally stuck in an Airbnb with, like you know, the uh bars on the windows and everything else.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, yeah, I'd be like so freaked out, I'd be like so, yeah, I don't know. So we talked, I don't know, we didn't really necessarily. Okay, let's talk about facing that relationship. So the relationship necessarily wasn't toxic or anything in that manner, but the relationship was still very meaningful to you and you still have a relationship with your brother. But let me redo this. I want to rephrase this Sorry, my mind is everywhere today.
Speaker 1:We're good, we're good, I'm like looking at my questions, not looking at my questions, let me think how do I want to do it? Okay, now I got it. Let me think how do I want to do it? Okay, now I got it. So if you were faced in a similar situation today, being in a relationship where you feel as if your people pleasing is coming back or just almost like a boundary is being kind of crossed in a way, how would you, you know, manage that situation?
Speaker 2:would you, you know, manage that situation. So one of the things that I would absolutely do and I would highly recommend everybody read this book. Please. If you have one takeaway, read this book. It changed my life at nonviolent communication and I read this book after I got back. I was like if I read that before it would have been a game changer.
Speaker 2:But nonviolent communication really did teach me how to have those boundaries and those really difficult conversations with people in a way that allows both parties to remain in their power, so that I don't go into a people pleasing state. I've gotten really great over the years at kind of learning to observe myself and watch myself like I would like a main character in a movie, where I can just step back and kind of see when I'm being triggered with those people pleasing patterns and in that moment it's like I can just take a breath and be like, okay, these are what my boundaries are and just remind myself and that story is such a good reminder for me as to if I had stuck with my boundaries earlier on, I wouldn't have gone through that experience. But again, if I didn't have that experience, that experience but again, if I didn't have that experience, my boundaries probably wouldn't be a straw.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is which is so, which is so crazy sometimes, that we have, we, we know, and then we have to still go through the experience to challenge ourselves, to assert ourselves in those situations. We like, yes, I do really know, Like I can move through that. I just it's not like, I just know mentally how to do it, Like I don't know, I just where are my words today? Oh my gosh, I literally can visualize them in my brain. But it's like you know the steps. It's like I've read how to bake a, I know the recipe to make cookies and I know the steps to make cookies, but until actually doing it and being in that situation, you really don't know how it's going to work.
Speaker 1:It's like when you're a therapist or somebody gives you advice like do this, this, the next time you're in a situation where you're being confronted, and it's not until you actually get in that situation, Do you understand how that actually works within your body, within your mind, within your heart. Because in reality, like my therapist gives me advice all the time like, oh, you should do this and say this, and then I'm like, I get to those situations and I was like, but it doesn't always feel right and it's like how do I navigate, take their advice and implement it into what I'm trying to then establish in this relationship, whether it be a boundary or continue a boundary or enforce a boundary? I think that's what I'm trying to say. Was there a question with that? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was listening and I'm like, okay, wait where did I go?
Speaker 1:But I think it is important to go through those experiences, especially when you are trying to work on yourself and establish those boundaries, and especially if you are a recovering people pleaser or a good girl. Let's just say I think it's really really hard. I feel, even when you have put in those boundaries, we still get into situations where we feel as if we are taking a few steps back, and maybe this is where I was going originally with it is what advice or what would you say when you are in a situation with somebody and let's just say this person is really, really close to you and your relationship has just been so great and they decided that they wanted to push a boundary, and you really felt like, kind of your old tendencies were kind of creeping up and you felt well, just because I've known them for so long or just because you know they've been so good to me, I should just, you know, let them this time, like, what would you say to those people that are listening, that are like, yeah, that's me uh, that's me too.
Speaker 2:We're we're always going to be tested in a roundabout way, right, whenever we're going through our growth, and so really anytime that I'll share, like what I personally do, and then hopefully people can take away those golden nuggets, for what works for them is, whenever I'm being tested, I will take a deep breath and I actually will try to just like step aside for a second and be like, okay, what is my role in this? And I'll put the responsibility back on myself, because we are the creators of our reality, and so if this is showing up is because it's something within myself that I haven't shifted and dismantled yet, and so this person's just showing me another area that I can work on to further strengthen those boundaries. So, yeah, I just look back at myself and then, of course, implementing nonviolent communication and holding yourself accountable for how you're showing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think accountability is a huge thing. I feel like sometimes, when we are establishing boundaries in current relationships and even in new relationships, I think we still have to take accountability for ourselves. Yes, and I feel like that sometimes is a piece that gets missing, like I feel like when my daughter talks about boundaries and she's a huge people pleaser and and she talks about things, but sometimes I'm like, but are you taking accountability for yourself? Like you feel like you're pointing a lot at other people and sometimes I feel like you don't need to point at yourself. But sometimes I think, like you had said, take a step back kind of step into yourself a little bit more and understand. Like where am I in this?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it really is just about the self-awareness. Yeah, it really is just about the self-awareness. And I think the more that we dive into ourself and see what's going on, we just strengthen those boundaries from like an energetic perspective. So we never really have to verbalize those boundaries with people because we're just so fully embodied in them that it's like anybody who's trying to cross our boundaries. I think eventually we'll just kind of step back and slowly disappear from our lives or just kind of like be on the outskirts of our life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true. Let's talk a little bit about self-awareness I feel like people talk about. I feel like self-awareness is far more challenging than how it is discussed, because it's almost like um, I'm trying to think of like another thing that we talk so easily, like it's just this, you know it's, it's just as easy as this putting something in the oven. But self-awareness is complicated, not, and I feel like the journey to self-awareness is different for everybody because, like, how I became really self-aware of myself was through meditation. But I know meditation is can be so hard for people. I know meditation. I say meditation is for everybody, but you know meditation might not be for everybody and sometimes, if our mind is a very scary place to be, meditation might not be the first place to go because you are literally forcing yourself to be alone with that in a way and so and but self-awareness really came through meditation.
Speaker 1:So I guess my question is is what are other forms of things, or just things, that you have done to bring self-awareness into your life Besides meditation? Besides meditation, because that's hard, because, like I've talked to a lot of people and people like really lean on meditation because it, like I said, it forces you to be quiet and it forces you to kind of dig deep. But I also get that that is not a realistic first step for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yes, all right, that is a slightly challenging question because I instantly want to go like first step. I'm like let's just go to step pat, which is not helpful because that will just fry somebody's nervous system. When you're first starting with self-awareness right, you're like you don't want to go to those places, like you said, like being forced to stay with yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, just starting out, I think one of the most powerful things we can do when we're starting out is to simply be aware of our feelings, because we try I shouldn't say we, but like quite a few people myself totally included there for the longest time I tried to avoid my feelings and it's like I just, you know, put a smile on my face and, oh, I'm happy all the time when underneath I had so much self-doubt, negative talk, like just a lot of like dark stuff that I didn't want people to see. And so when I just started to focus on like, oh, oh, that feel okay, that feeling is actually anger and that feeling it's okay to feel that way as long as I'm not staying there and then it was like a little glimpse of like, oh my god, was that just joy? I felt, oh my god, like that's exciting.
Speaker 1:I haven't felt that since I was a kid yeah, I love you know what I love that it reminds me almost like a meditation. I know a grounding meditation which, basically, when you're anxious and you need to ground yourself, you go, you tap into all your senses, which are super easy what do I smell, what do I hear, what do I taste, what do I see, what do I feel? It brings you right back into your body, brings you right back into the present moment and I and I love, I love how you said just understanding the feelings that are just happening in the body, without even necessarily acknowledging them. I guess in a way but not necessarily like I'm just going to drive down the tunnel of doom today and dive deep into my anger at this very moment, but just understanding like I'm angry in this situation. Why am I so angry in this situation? This didn't make me angry before or the last time.
Speaker 2:It made me super angry and I'm not as angry as I was yes, and it's so powerful once we have like once we can actually feel it and just acknowledge it, without going into stories right, because we love to tell stories as people. So we can just detach from the story and be like, okay, yeah, so that's exactly where I feel anger in my body, like that's what it feels like for me and it's not gonna feel the same for everybody, and that's okay. And then it's just like okay, cool, I acknowledge it and I accept it being there and then you can carry on with your day. Like you say. You don't always have to address everything, like let me get out my journal and start, you know, going as deep as I can into this, like no, no.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's like literally a blip in time Like it. Like I've been in situations where I have a conversation with somebody and I'm like, ooh, why did what they said or how they said it made me feel this way? This is interesting. But then then, that was it Like. It was just like, okay, that was interesting. I'm going to keep that note in the back of my mind in case this comes up again, like if this was just a one one off. Maybe it was just something I'm not even aware of right now, or maybe there is something a little bit bigger that's underlying, but now is not the time to investigate. Yeah, and I don't even really know what it is, so I don't even know what I'm necessarily even looking for. It's like I almost need it to happen again.
Speaker 2:Yes, and if it happens again, right, that memory is going to come back as to like oh, last time. And that's when you can start to investigate like a little bit further, as to like oh, okay, what is this pattern that's going on every time you know XYZ happens? This is my response.
Speaker 1:And I would love to talk a little bit about, I don't want to say toxic relationships, but I guess, relationships that aren't necessarily serving you and you know bringing your best self out, and that aren't necessarily filling your cup up, because we've all, we all have been in relationships and friendships and different things, and some fulfill us more than others. Um, but we all can recall a time where we are in a friendship with somebody and we're just like, every single time it's just not great, but at that same time, same, as like your, your brother. It's like, well, you know, you know, they have been, we've been, we've been friends for 10 years Like I can't let go of this friendship right now. Or you know, and, and so what?
Speaker 1:What would you say to somebody who is maybe sitting there or, you know, listening right now, is and is feeling that like. Feeling like, yeah, I have, I'm, I am in a relationship with a friend or whoever. It could be somebody at work, it could be a business partnership, it could be really, ultimately, anything where it's just not serving you anymore. But you don't necessarily know how to start the end game.
Speaker 2:Oh, so working our way out of those relationships, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think, and it's's okay.
Speaker 1:So, I'm going to add this because we did have this topic at the dinner. So I feel like there could be two parts to this, where we were chatting with somebody and she was talking about how she got out of two relationships like friendships, and one was like a slow roll, so they slowly distanced themselves over time and one was fast. It was like a confrontation more or less. It wasn't necessarily a confrontation, but it was a conversation. And then, after their friendship was over, and so the discussion was which one was worse Like? Which one is harder on you as a person? The confrontation, the hard conversation all at once, and then the aftermath or is it the never really knowing? We just slowly drifted apart and so I guess, with this toxic, or in a relationship or in a friendship that isn't necessarily serving you, I guess. Now my second part to the question is which one? I don't even think one is better than the other, but how would you navigate both situations? Maybe I'll do it that way.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, my first thought as you're describing that I'm like ooh, sign me up for the quick one where it's over.
Speaker 1:But you're so funny because I'm me, I'm like not the quick one, that's too much for me, see, and I totally get that that right.
Speaker 2:But I think it's kind of like I was viewing it like just rip off a band-aid because then I can like heal and process and move on, or the other one, even though I think it sounds gentler, I think from an energetic perspective it keeps us attached to that person longer. So it actually it's almost like and this is such a bad analogy, but it's what's coming through, so I'm going to trust it's almost like an energetic vampire where it's just like sucking at our energy Right. So for navigating it, in all honesty, I think, with the, the like drawn out one, I would want to have a harder conversation and just get it all out there, because I wouldn't. I would assume let's put it this way that if I'm struggling with the relationship, they probably have some struggles with me as well. So it's like, hey, let's just watch this out and find closure with it, or not closure, but just like, let's wrap this up so that I can pull my energy back to me. I get that.
Speaker 1:That's. That was my thing with the long, the long drawn out. It was like to me it was always like the what ifs. You don't really have an answer to the question that you're constantly asking yourself. You're just basically guessing and maybe trying to understand their perspective, or you're kind of going on the other end, being like I don't really give a fuck. Anyways, yes, it's one or the other it's either my husband's viewpoint or mine? Yeah, he's just like I don't give a fuck whatever they're out of my life and I'm like, damn, that's harsh.
Speaker 1:But at the same'm like is it? Because if they're not serving you and you know the, the, the relationship or the friendship or whatever it may be, is causing more harm than good, then maybe. But I'm I'm so like, oh, that's too harsh for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think too, it comes down to like whatever story we want to attach to it, right, Because everybody has their own perspective and their own stories as to how it goes down to like whatever story we want to attach to it, right, because everybody has their own perspective and their own stories as to how it goes down. So, just because it's like if I cut somebody out and I think it was like harsh and fast, maybe they're like oh my god, that took forever. Very true, very true. Like time is just like our own perception of it. So who knows right? And then we always make up those stories and, like you were saying, like oh, but like what? If I had done this, maybe I could have saved the relationship if we had this conversation earlier. But I think that's part of being human right, where we always kind of have that little bit of I don't even want to say self-doubt, but just those questions that come up where we're like what could I have done? So next time I can make better choices in the relationship.
Speaker 1:I think it comes to just being a caring person.
Speaker 1:I think in those times, like just being a kind person, and sometimes for me, in those times where I am asking a lot of those questions, it might not necessarily be about trying to fix that particular friendship or relationship. It might be how can I prevent this in the future? Like if it was something that I had done and I'm not aware that I'm doing this in this friendship. You know, I'm never going to be able to change, I'm never going to be able to evolve in that part of my life or in that area of that relationship.
Speaker 1:So sometimes for myself it's curiosity for my own personal development rather than curiosity for somebody else, because I always want to improve and I always want to be better and better for myself and better in those relationships too, and I'm like I'm a person that never likes confrontation. So like having confrontation as an adult or you know, I always go back to this. I was chatting with a friend of mine and in dms and it started off as like a playful joke and then it slowly kind of transitioned into we don't, it was funny because we both don't know what happened and what it turned into but it basically trans into, transitioned into a lot of. It basically triggered both of us in a different way and it kind of left out a weird standstill and I stood on it and not long, but like stood on it. And the next I finally said something to my husband and I was like I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't get past this and I'm not I'm not offended by her because I think I did something wrong and I'm like I need to, I need to understand where in this conversation it went askew.
Speaker 1:Because there was no intention of that, because it started off so playful and fun, but all of a sudden it went weird and it was like, after I sent her this long voice note. I was like I apologize, I don't. I said I don't even know what I'm apologizing for at this moment, but I'm apologizing for a feeling that I feel like I invoked in you that you didn't like and I, I said I just want you to know that that was never my intention and that was never who like. That's not why I started this conversation and I really wanted to one challenge myself to be okay to verbalize that in a relationship, because part of me would have been a people pleaser and would have just kind of like and just kind of left it or just kind of went along with it. You know what I mean. Like just kind of like, whatever, like my feelings don't count.
Speaker 1:And so I really wanted to kind of stand up and do that, because I would never do that as, like in a teenage relationship, in a teenage friendship, when I was a teenager. I'd just be like oh my God, they hate me forever. They're going to take this to my grave. Like honestly. Oh, they're going to write this and all my stuff, oh, it's so awful. But I was like, and then I also wanted to know, because I wanted to fix that part, like I wanted to understand like what, what was it? And we both realized that we both. It triggered the 17 year old in me and it triggered something else in her and it was completely different. It was interesting because it was just so. We were both so unaware, but like aware at the same time, that's powerful and it says a lot about how far you've come as well.
Speaker 2:right, wanting like picking up the phone and having that conversation? Yeah, because that can feel scary as to like how, how is she going to respond? Like is this going to make it worse?
Speaker 1:And it was like you were just like nope, I'm doing this, I'm doing this and and it was a friendship Like we still were kind of learning, like it wasn't like a friendship that we had for 15 years and it's like we knew each other and and it would be easy to have that.
Speaker 2:It was it was still relatively a new friendship, so it was like oh, I don't want this friendship to be over.
Speaker 1:I value this, but at the same time I'm like, I'm fucking scared, like this is scary. This is hard. It's hard being adult.
Speaker 2:It is. It's. It really is scary to be vulnerable and to have those conversations and, like you know, stick up for yourself, have the boundaries, because we so badly just want to default back to you know, when we were kids and, like somebody else, come and protect me and deal with this for me, because I don't want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true, it's yeah, it's so freaking hard.
Speaker 1:So is there any shifts that you made in your life that really gave you confidence I don't even want to say confidence, maybe reassurance, that putting up your boundaries and kind of stepping away from that good girl, or that people pleasing was the right thing, because I think I know for myself people pleasing and this really pertains to my daughter, because I try not to people please my daughter because I don't feel like I'm teaching her anything by doing that and diminishing my own boundaries, and as a mother, I feel like I need to fill my cup up too, but I really find it hard to not I don't want to say stick with it, but go back to the default and go back to being like, well, you know I think we kind of already discussed this a little bit but continuing that journey forward and rather and so, and continuing to make those shifts and knowing that I am doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:And so I guess what I'm trying to ask is was there anything else that you did that kind of continuously keeps you moving forward? Did that kind of continuously keeps you moving forward? You know, continuously putting the people pleasing at bay, because I feel like it never leaves.
Speaker 2:It doesn't. No, it's still, you know, because it is kind of that default, so it will pop up from time to time. But I have noticed like the first time was definitely the hardest, but since then there have been people, yeah, where it's like I noticed the people pleasing come up and then I just it's that feeling, that feeling of like I never want to be in a situation like that Again. I want to feel that deep inner peace that I felt when I was in that layover with the sun and after I'd bawled my eyes out. It's like that peace is what I remind myself of anytime. I feel myself being like okay, well, maybe this one time I could just break my boundaries and say yes, even though everything inside of me is screaming no. And then I'm like oh no, I am not playing that game again him again.
Speaker 1:No, no, and I, yeah, yeah, I get that yeah to hold on to those moments where you, where you actually went through it yes, and just reminding myself of like yeah, it was really fucking challenging that whole situation.
Speaker 2:But on the other side, I felt more like me than I ever have, and that continues to evolve. The more inner work that I do, the more personal development. It's like peeling back the layers of the onion right when I'm like, oh my God, now I feel like myself. And then, you know, next week I'm going to be like oh my God, I feel more like myself than ever before.
Speaker 1:I need to do, do that, I need this conversation because I'm in my I'm like resorted back into my people pleasing like I.
Speaker 1:It's like I feel like sometimes it comes in waves where I almost can't dig myself out of it. It's like every time I make a pocket of time for myself just to do anything, um, that's where my people pleasing is, is where I'm at my acts. My love language is acts of service, so that gets me in more trouble sometimes than anything else, and so I'm very much in my acts of service overwhelm right now, and so it feels like what I know. It feels as if anything that I'm trying to do for myself whether it be work for myself or lay on my couch for myself, you know, just small things, small tasks that I do every day, like going out to my chicken. Sometimes I don't even have the time to do that because I'm too busy serving others, and this is where I kind of get myself in trouble. So how? I guess you answered this already, but I feel like self-awareness is key really at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and catching that first, how you were saying like sometimes it will come in waves. It's like catching that first little glimpse of the wave so that you're not diving right into the full wave. It's like, oh right, Kind of like just stepping back in yoga and just observing. And just kind of witnessing yourself and being like, oh, that's what. It is right there.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm not playing that game, yeah, and it's being okay with no. I think Like I've said a lot of no. I feel like I've said a lot of no's recently and I feel feel terrible because I want to do all the things that I want to help all the people, um, but I just physically can't, mentally cannot, more or less.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So every time you're saying no to them, you're saying yes to you. I know that. You know that right. So it just it feels better. It feels kind of crappy because our people pleasing just wants to be like, yes, I'll do it, but it's like, oh, if I say no to you, I know I'm going to feel better about it and that's what counts. Right Is how you're feeling, because that you carry that into every, every moment of your day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you just made me think of something and it's, it's. It's when you say no to me, when I say no, it's over. Like the thought of it, the guilt of it, all of it kind of just dissipates because I'm like okay, I don't have to worry about this anymore. I already said no. I gave them an like, maybe a second option, whatever the whatever it was. Like when I sell out of orders, I feel guilty, saying no, but I literally I can't physically do anymore. Like it is what it is Like when I'm maxed. I'm maxed and I still feel guilty. But then I give them an alternative. I can make it this day instead I bake next week, or when I tell you know, and so then I feel okay, I'm done, I don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 1:But sometimes when I say yes, that lingering anxiety haunts me until the yes is resolved. So if I said yes and it's three months from now, I'm anxious for three months. Yeah, oh, my, I totally feel that, yeah. And so sometimes in those moments I'm like is it worth being riddled with anxiety or worry or whatever is going to come after this? Because I know I'm not saying yes for myself, I'm saying yes for them. Is this going to haunt me till whenever we conclude? Whatever this yes was for, and if I'm like, yeah, it's going to haunt me for a while, I'm like, yeah, maybe it's a no oh, my god, that is so powerful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing that, because that, like, I've never really noticed for myself that exactly what you just said about the yes and how that can create more anxiety, yeah, yeah, and I don't know if you'll do it, but then in my mind I'm like, oh, maybe I could come up with a story, maybe.
Speaker 2:I could do and I'm like I don't need to come up with a story to get out of it, like I could just say I don't want to. Yeah, I'm like I don't want to say no, so how can I like get out of it using my words and like a long drawn out sentence, exactly.
Speaker 1:No, not today, but it's. You know it's hard and I find you know my hardest people pleasing is when I'm baking, because most of the time the answer can be yes, other than if I'm sold out. Most of the time the answer can be yes, other than if I'm sold out. Most of the time the answer can be yes, but most of the time the answer that I was given is no, because I don't want to do it like I had someone reach out today like hey, portia, can you just make some bread for me and I'll just pick it up when I'm at this market on Saturday. No, I don't bake on Saturdays, but I didn't even say I don't bake on Saturdays. I said unfortunately, i't even say I don't bake on Saturdays. I said, unfortunately I can't. I can bake Tuesday for you, cause that's when I bake next. I love it. And it's just like okay, I'll just give them something else in a way.
Speaker 1:But I'm still holding true to my boundary because I will sit there and mull it over, cause it's not always an immediate no, sometimes it is, and sometimes it's like oh well, I probably could, it wouldn't be that bad. I just you know. And then I'm like wait, portia, you've been wanting to sleep in for three months now. On a Saturday morning you want to lounge in your bed, and if you make this bread you have to be up at 6am so your daughter can go take it with her. So no, the answer is no. You just went over this yesterday with yourself and so it's hard because it's like this internal negotiation, like I think I could make it work, and then I. Then I think if I said yes today, I would be anxious about it until I baked it Saturday morning yes, that is so, see, and it comes back to the self-awareness of being like I don't want to feel that way, so I'm just gonna say no instead yeah, and I'm like they'll find meawareness of being like.
Speaker 2:I don't want to feel that way, so I'm just going to say no instead, yeah, and I'm like they'll find me.
Speaker 1:And I'm always like they'll find me when it's ready, Like I'm here when you're ready. That's my biggest line. Like, oh well, I only can do it this day. Well, I'm always like, well, I'm here when you're ready. I love that when we're mutually compatible. Yeah, and we'll go from there, Because it's all I can give right now, and if I give any more, I unfortunately things will just start falling around me. So it is what it is and that's amazing. Just yeah. But yeah, I really stick with. Like, how much anxiety is it going to create for me later? And if it's going to be a lot and I probably will always, it always is I'm just not going to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's so powerful and honestly, I'm like I just want to give you a hug.
Speaker 1:I'm like so proud of you for that, thank you, thank you. Sometimes I have these little nuggets come out of these conversations. They start they kind of could start with a little bit of a rocky road. I feel like I'm going to keep some of it in there. Why not? Why not? It was a bit rocky, it's real. It's real. Sometimes our brains are other places.
Speaker 2:That's what people need, right? Is there real? Not always like the primed polish, like here's the end result?
Speaker 1:it's like no, this is how it went down and that's the best part is I do all the editing on the podcast and people are like, oh, you didn't take all the like, the filler words. I was like no, no, no, I take a majority but not all of them, because we're real people, we use um and ah and we are thinking and so like it's not a big deal but, um, I always like to end every podcast with this question, um, and the answer doesn't have to pertain to the topic that we discussed today.
Speaker 1:It can be about anything, and it is what is one piece of advice that you would like to leave here today with everybody.
Speaker 2:One piece. I'm not going to lie. That's challenging, because I'm like, oh my God, I want to give you guys everything One piece of advice. Okay, it might sound a little cliche. The first thing that's coming through, though, is like, if you truly desire something, like any goal that you have, no matter what it is life, business, health, relationships it's like commit to that goal, choose that that is what you want. To commit to it, because so many people will go through life being very wishy washy and unclear as to what they want and never create the reality that they desire. So, decide what it is, commit and then go all in. And if I can add one more thing because I do this with myself every day is I'll ask myself one of two questions when I'm working towards my goals, and the first question is how committed am I to this? Or I'll ask myself am I committed to my excuses right now or my growth, and that will get my ass up and moving.
Speaker 1:Fuck, I just want to bury myself under my desk Because I am like answering those in my head in real time and it's not the answer I wanted. That's okay. And now you know.
Speaker 2:Now I know Awareness, so that you can make changes.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I'm going to be asking myself that I'm going to be you know, now I know awareness, so that you can make changes. Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be asking myself that I'm going to be you know, especially the second part, the excuses, because I feel like, damn, I can get there, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a good like pusher offer.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I'm sorry. I'm a good like pusher offer. Oh my God, I'm sorry, I'm going to be reflecting after this. Those were, those were good. Those were really really good questions. Oh, I'm going to be asking myself that, especially in those moments of procrastination, because that's when I need the, the swift kick.
Speaker 2:Yes, please use them. I will hate me, for though I will be like Melissa again here.
Speaker 1:You are right, this was amazing hiccups and all yes.
Speaker 2:I honestly, I had so much fun and the time has flown by, yeah it always says I'm always checking it.
Speaker 1:Because I'm like, oh my god, because sometimes I'm like it's been amazing, oh it has. Thank you thank you.
Speaker 2:It's actually like oh very freeing to share that, that little teeny piece that nobody's ever seen or knows about gonna have.
