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Embracing the Abyss: Nicole's Path Through Grief and the Quest for Healing Connection
Grief can ambush us with its intensity, leaving us to navigate a labyrinth of emotions and responsibilities. In a conversation with Nicole, a massage therapist and reiki master, we traverse the raw and rugged terrain of loss. She shares her heart-wrenching journey after her father's passing at 27, facing the dual challenge of managing both her own sorrow and the wellbeing of her younger siblings. Nicole's story is a stark reminder of the hidden administrative burdens that surface amidst the emotional chaos of losing a loved one, and the profound importance of finding one's pathway to healing.
Finding solace and support during our darkest times isn't always intuitive. This episode peels back the layers of resistance to therapy and the critical realization that seeking help is a courageous step towards renewal. Reflecting on my own hesitance to embrace therapy following personal tragedies, I delve into the transformative power of self-care practices—be it through visualization, journaling, or embracing the cold plunge. These acts of self-preservation are not only personal lifelines but also essential strategies in the tumult of parenting and personal upheaval.
We conclude our heartfelt dialogue with an examination of the strength found in vulnerability. Communicating needs, asking for help, and sharing personal experiences transcend being mere acts of courage—they are lifelines that connect us, human to human. The discussions in this episode underscore the importance of transparent relationships and the invaluable perspectives offered by friends or professionals, who provide unbiased opinions that catalyze growth and healing. Join us as we affirm the resilience of the human spirit through the shared bonds of collective experiences and the undeniable power woven into the act of reaching out.
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Join me, portia Chambers, as I sit down with women just like you, sharing moments in their lives that shape them into who they are today Stories of motherhood, betrayal, transformation, love and loss, vulnerable conversations, deep connection and collective healing. Welcome to the this Is we podcast. I am so excited to have our next guest here with us. Nicole is a registered massage therapist, reiki Master and mentor whose sole mission is to help women access their own power and heal themselves with practical and energetic tools. She is a mother of two young kids, born 21 months apart that has brought challenged times and grief to resurface. Nicole lost her dad suddenly just after she was engaged five years ago, and how this led her towards her own healing journey and helps others do the same. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yes.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to hear a little bit about your story. I know we talked a little bit in the DMs before this and you have quite a few stories, but we're going to hone in on this one specifically around your dad and navigating the grief with having young children and everything in between. So let's start with the story of losing your dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that it was sudden, but not sudden. We had known he was sick and he had challenging times. My dad was an alcoholic and he was suffering for years, on and off of struggling with the disease and getting sober and actually at the time of his passing he had been sober for the better part of six months but because of the disease it caused and have cirrhosis of the liver and what ultimately happened was his liver had gone into failure. But it kind of did come on suddenly because he was good at the time, we were engaged, me and my now husband, in February and in March we had an engagement party, which was nice because he was able to be there, and we didn't realize this.
Speaker 2:The end was coming and it came on in May and he went to the hospital and his liver was in failure and they released him after a week and actually on good terms, and that they had a medical treatment plan for him and he was going to be seeing a specialist in a couple weeks and he was released on the Wednesday and within the next couple days they had put him on a blood thinner because of obviously his liver wasn't functioning properly, which caused internal bleeding and full body organ failure.
Speaker 2:So it happened within four days after him leaving. He woke up the Sunday and wasn't okay and we all got to the hospital and within two hours of us getting there he passed away. So it was pretty sudden and nothing they could really do for him. If they did, it would just be it was yeah, it wouldn't have resulted in anything they could have, unfortunately, and the outcome was, yes, him passing, but luckily almost all of our family was able to be there and he was surrounded by family, so that was a blessing. And in the tragedy and the trauma that came with it and it being so sudden, I was 27 and I have two younger sisters, so we all pretty young. He was only 54, so, yeah, it was unexpected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really young for both of you, for both your dad and yourself. I know my husband lost his dad at a young age I think he was 21 and I know it really rocked him to his core and I didn't know him at the time so I wasn't necessarily there for that. But I couldn't even imagine being in your 20s and losing a significant figure in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not something you expect to lose someone that young. Right, I have lost grandparents and they were older and they were sick and that's kind of a blessing in disguise. They lived their life and lived a wonderful life, and then it was just their time where this was like this wasn't his time. He still had half he did. He had half of his life ahead of him, right, and major milestones that he'll never experience and we won't have him here for either, right.
Speaker 1:No, not at all. So how was it dealing with grief at this magnitude?
Speaker 2:It was very, it was overwhelming, I would say, is the biggest term. I was the oldest, so, with the backtrack a little bit, my parents had separated Seven years I would say five or seven, I can't remember not too long before my dad had passed, I would say maybe five, seven years, seven years it had been divorced for and a lot of it had to do, unfortunately, with the alcohol, like his addiction. But even though my mom was there, she was there for him. At the end of the day was her love of her life, that was her, the father to her three children. I kind of felt like I always had to protect my sisters, so that was something I took on, that I didn't necessarily need to, which caused a lot of burden for me.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of regret that came with his passing. There was a lot that I felt like I just had to handle everything, like I had to take lead on planning his funeral, I had to take lead on dealing with getting his things out of the house and all of that. Luckily my dad had an older brother and he was a blessing in disguise and he took over being the executor for the will, because that's a big thing when somebody passes away, it's not just that they pass and you get to grieve. There is a whole mess behind the government. You still have to file their taxes after they pass away. He had a house, so that had to go into everything. Their bank accounts go into the state.
Speaker 2:I think that is even more traumatizing and more work than the actual passing and planning the funeral that you never thought you'd be planning at that stage in your life. That's a lot people forget. People will show up for that week after your parent has passed or somebody has passed, and it's like that's only when everything is beginning. That's when the shock finally wears off that they are gone. Here is the mess of stuff you need to clean up or get dealt with, and then that first year, all the milestones and the milestones thereafter.
Speaker 2:That reactivates the grief, but then nobody ever wants to talk about grief after that moment and after the funeral no one ever likes to ask how are you dealing with that? Which to me it's like that faux pas, like everyone's always scared to bring up, or, like I did have people like they'll talk about their dad and I'm like shh, shh, like that year he passed and it's like why you have a dad that's alive. Just because mine is, it doesn't mean you can't be excited for a moment with your dad, right? But it's the one thing in life that every one of us is going to experience. We're all going to experience the loss of somebody, because that is like we all are born and we all have an ending point when we pass away. But it's the one thing that people are so scared to talk about or give ongoing support for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true. I always, I always see grief as like the elephant in the room, where everybody knows it's there and no one wants to address it. And I think because I feel like I've been on both sides where, when I was young, my girlfriend lost her brother. So I was in my late teens I guess I was like maybe 19, 20 max where she had lost her brother. So we were fairly young and he was might have been 16 at the time and it was through cancer and they knew it was coming. He was in palliative care and everything like that, but it still didn't necessarily make it easier. But to us still talking about him is still very much an elephant in the room. And it's been 20 years, like it's been so long since he had passed.
Speaker 1:And that was kind of my first dealing with grief and not necessarily knowing how to address it, especially with my best friend, like how do? I don't want to bring it up because I don't want her to be sad, but I want to reminisce because he was very much a part of my life as he was a part of hers. And then I went through grief and I realized that I wanted to talk about it. I didn't want to be quieted or hushed around or I. You know it was interesting because I didn't. I didn't mind feeling all of the feelings of it when I was able to talk to it. I think it felt more liberating to talk about it and feel the feelings than to do it silently, behind closed doors alone and trying to put this mask on of I'm happy all the time. Did you find that you would much rather have talked about, you know, your grief with friends than kind of deal with it alone?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely wanted to talk to people and people that did it, that were close with me, that didn't show up or show support, because most of the time it's because people don't know how to right. But when you're in that grief you're like you're not there for me, like I want you to be here for me. I want to talk about it. How could you not show up type of thing where sometimes now, when you're years later outside looking in, it could be yours? You see that for some people it's uncomfortable topic or situation or attending, but at the end of the day, to me sometimes you need to put those feelings aside to be there for that person. But you do, you put on that mask that you're okay. Or, where I went into a little bit was I put on that victim mask where I was not okay. This wasn't fair, this was hard, you should all pity me which that's not okay either. Which then showed that, with how it kind of began my healing journey because I had kind of had that mask through my parent separation, through dealing with the issues with my dad's um, my dad's addiction and alcoholism, that I realized I played that victim, that victim mode of law. And then, once he passed, I realized that that wasn't okay and I really also had to face his disease.
Speaker 2:When you're younger and a late teen in early 20s, when your, your dad is suffering from this, you're just like, how do you, how do you, how can you choose alcohol over your family? Like you don't fully understand the disease. You just see all the horrible outcomes, how it's affecting his relationship with his family, with friends, with you at like, as your child, and you don't get it. And you're just like it just doesn't make sense. How do you? You just say no, you don't get it. And then, once he passed, I realized some of that. Sometimes I'm like I gave him too much tough love and then that regret sets in right. Like, did I give him too much love? Did I? I didn't get to spend enough time with him. I, I, I didn't say the right things to him that last week. Or I didn't show up this day like I should have the day before. I should have checked in, I should have went and saw him. Maybe if we put it, got him to the hospital the day before, he would still be here.
Speaker 2:Like all those things run through your mind, especially when it's a sudden loss of somebody, but all that's going to do is just rip you apart, and that's what it did for me. For two months I was ridden with anxiety, panic attacks. I never I did. I couldn't even put a mask on at some points anymore, like I just was unhappy. I was probably miserable to be around. I probably made people uncomfortable because they could see that I was wearing the grief rather than putting on that happy face.
Speaker 2:And that's when I realized like I need to heal Within this. There was a lot of trauma that came with this and a lot of scars that I need to to heal, because I love my dad and we were so close and I don't want this one thing to defy him, like I had been defying him. Yeah, that's where I took on and learned and learned more about the disease and how he didn't have a choice. He tried because we saw him. He got sober multiple times. He tried. He just ultimately lost, lost that battle, and that's and it's not something you want to live the rest of your life in is holding Any grudges or regret towards that person or that situation, because it literally it will eat you alive.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, it really will. Yeah, resentment is like the worst thing ever. It's like this silent Nar at our soul sometimes, where it just it's always there, it's always lingering. I want to talk a little bit about the, you know, the victim mask or the victim mode that you were in, and how did you identify that in yourself? I know you talked about it previously, before your dad's passing, and then even afterwards. It just kind of translated in there. So how, yeah, how, did you identify that in yourself? Or was that somebody else that kind of said hey, nicole, I feel like you're playing the victim right now.
Speaker 2:I had a girlfriend who pointed it out so, and one day it was after, we were out with a bunch of girlfriends and we were driving home and she's like I know you're going through a tough time. I can't imagine my parents are together. I'm not experiencing my parents separating when we're 20 years old. But she's like you're not nice, like the things you are saying are not nice and you're pushing your friends away from from you. And when she told me that I was so mad at her and I was like, no, like you just don't understand how I'm feeling right now, like I'm struggling. And it was then that I realized what I was doing. And and when I stood back and looked back, I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not nice to be around. I just find the negative and everything which is exhausting. I just everything.
Speaker 2:Like you said that it was that mindset that I spilled my coffee in the morning. I'm like, oh, it's going to be another bad day. Like, oh, of course this happens to me. Like of course that happened. Like nothing can ever go right. And then you keep attracting that energy, right? Um, but her ultimately telling me realized and it was, yeah, I was pushing friendships away, I was ruining relationships within my life and I didn't want to do that anymore and I didn't want want to be that person. And that's when I self recognize that. And once my dad passed and I realized I was slipping back into that mindset again and the anxiety was overwhelming and the panic attacks came back, I realized it was time for me to start therapy, something that I had resisted doing All during that, those times in my early 20s and stuff and I realized it's time, like I, I can't do this by myself anymore and I need help, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a question for you. Um, I resisted therapy too, and I'm curious as to why you resisted it.
Speaker 2:I think I I was young. So when I first was told like you probably should go to therapy which was like in my 20s I was in college and I was struggling with my parents, the separation and Moving out of the only home I ever lived in and just all of it um, that's when I really that's the one I started experiencing anxiety and was experiencing a lot of panic attacks, but I thought I could handle it by myself. I had. I was exposed to therapy once before, when I was in high school. The night before prom, um, one of my best friends was killed in a car accident and they brought in A therapist for like the next month. That stayed in guidance that we could go whenever and Once a week out of the core group of friends. She would call you down and kind of try to talk to you and you were just teenage, silent. I don't need to talk to anyone, I'm fine, I can only talk to my friends. They're the only ones that know what I'm going through, right. And then when I got to my 20s, I'm like it's not going to do anything for me, like I don't need that, I can do this on my own.
Speaker 2:And Once we got through the hardships of being done school and the dust settling over my parents and separation and all that, and I got to a more calm place.
Speaker 2:I'm like, see, like I handled that and then it's just, it's just a mask, right, it's just you're in a different phase, you're putting up that wall. And then by the time he was done and it was starting to give me affect me health wise, like nothing major. But with the amount of stress and anxiety I was like I was. I had gone into adrenal fatigue from the stress and everything and I realized there's no live us. I need the help and I already know how much there's a mind-body connection and if your mind is not okay, your body's not going to be okay and that's going to manifest into health problems and disease. And I Didn't want that anymore and I was ready to get better and I was ready to heal and I wanted To heal my relationship with my dad, even though he wasn't there anymore. I know I needed to do that to move on for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:And would you say that starting therapy was the beginning of your deep healing journey, or was there something that kind of happened a little bit before that?
Speaker 2:No, I would say that was the beginning of it. I think before that I was dabbling in some things like self-health books, reading things here and there, but I think that was the ultimate thing that pushed me, that I'm ready to change, I'm ready to be a better person, I'm ready to live a happy life, and life is just so short it can be ripped out of away from you in in seconds, and I'm not. I don't want to live with these feelings of regret and resentment and All of this anymore, and it was. It was time to change, and I knew Nobody is going to do that unless you do that for yourself. No, and it was the biggest thing we saw with addiction too. Like we, as much as we wanted to try to help him, we couldn't help him until he was ready to accept that help. And it's the same for any. It goes for anything in life. If you're ready to make a change, no one's gonna make that change for you. You need to take that initiative and and help yourself.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, and it's the hardest thing to watch, like as an outsider, when you really want to help somebody and they're not taking that initiative and they're not doing.
Speaker 1:You're like, just just do it. Because I see that I know I can't compare my daughter to your dad, but I see that in my daughter she's a teenager and there's a lot of things that she says that you know she wants to do and I'm like, but you have to do that for yourself. I can't, I can't hold your hand the entire time. You know these are things that you have to take the initiative and doing and decide for yourself that you want that change. Like I'm gonna support you regardless. But you also can't Come to me every single time that it's not working because you still haven't decided to do that change either. Like you can't continue just to go down the same road over and over and over again. But it can be really, really hard to Watch somebody struggle, knowing exactly what they need to do to get out of that struggle, or through that struggle, but then just choosing not to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can't. It's probably 10 times harder watching your child do it, because all you want to do is protect them. Yeah, and say, I know I'm not doing this because I'm a mom. I'm doing this because I love you and like learn from my mistakes. But I mean, we're all teenagers. We all know we need to learn from our own mistakes to the same, to a certain degree. Right, and you just want to protect them and cuddle them and just just listen to me, trust me.
Speaker 1:For your well-being. Yeah, I'm not the enemy here, yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about your, your healing journey. So it started with therapy. What else you know led into your healing journey? Was there other Hotalities or different things that you tried throughout it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it actually led me to a year after his passing take a life coaching certification course program actually was a program, it was eight months and because I realized how much, after Just even healing myself physically and healing my mind, how much the mind, the body, is connected, and being massage therapists, knowing like people get on the table and so much of it is just stress that they're holding of tension Within their muscles and how much that's connected to what's going on in their head and I thought by doing this one it can help me even grow more as a person. But to add, as another level that I can help my clients with to. But With the life coaching, that gave me more tools and that's where it started realizing how much breath is connected to everything and breathing. And it started with Doing visualization, meditation. I'm not someone who can sit there and just meditate in the silence. I need a visualization and I'm good to sit in one for like 10, 15 minutes tops, usually 10 minutes, and I'm good and everyone's different and that's the thing. There's so many modalities out there that can help you. You just have to try and see what works for you.
Speaker 2:And journaling was another huge, huge thing for me was getting my thoughts out onto paper because I live in my head and I fester over things and I'm that person that was like, oh my god, I said this to that person like a month ago. How'd like, do they hate me? Is that why I haven't talked to me yet? I was one of those people. So, getting it out onto paper and using visualization, meditations and connecting my breath to my body, those were huge things that helped me calm my nervous system, help me not slip into deeper anxiety, not get back into the panic attacks, and in movement and Different types of movement, a movement's gonna look different for everyone. Whether you want to call it exercising and going to the gym, I just movement and throughout my life I've gone through different periods of of Movement. That serves me and I seem to bounce around from activities, but it's just what serves me at that time and that's okay, too right. But those were, those were big things that have helped me during during these times.
Speaker 1:I love how you say that you know people should try different modalities, because I think I think that's such a big takeaway in, you know, a healing journey or a healing process, because what works for one person isn't necessarily gonna work for everybody. And my biggest like I talk about it all the time my biggest thing for myself, moving through grief, was meditation, and I started with guided meditations and now I sit quietly by myself, but I'm very much in my head. My head is always. It's, it's like that, it's like white noise of just people talking. That is my brain all the time. It just never stops moving.
Speaker 1:And I find now that I can sit in a meditation and Sometimes they settle in and I'm like, oh, this is so good, and the space in between my thoughts grow. It's not like they disappear, because that's not the intention of meditation, and sometimes I've just sit and sit with the chatter, which is really uncomfortable, and one thought after another, after another, but it really allows me to be like, okay, this is what I'm really thinking about right now. It's really so minimal in my life. This is what's what's, you know, holding me, holding a grip on me right now, is are these small little thoughts? But it really puts into perspective just how you know insignificant they really are and just like you had said, like being that person and I am still sometimes that person where, you know, I messaged somebody and I said something wrong and I was like, oh my god, they're not talking to me, that's what I said.
Speaker 1:I don't remember myself. Like people are busy, like sometimes someone messages me and I can't get back to them within a two days, and it's not because of what they said, it's just because I just don't have the time or I just am not in the right headspace to answer them. Because I want to answer them Wholeheartedly, because what they said was very vulnerable or whatever it may be, and I want to be. They're not rushing that conversation, I want to be fully present in that. But yeah, a lot of what you were saying was really resonating with me.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh yeah, I felt that before and I was like one thing you just said that touched on me, where you just said I started with guided and now I can sit in the meditation. That's another thing, like Modalities, healing modalities can change throughout your life. Like some of the things that used to work for me then, like now I do not. With two kids the young kid, babies I do not have the time to sit in journal every single day, morning and night. I don't have that time. It was a practice I love but I don't have it anytime, so don't have that time anymore. I do sometimes, but not like I used to every single day. So they can change, like now.
Speaker 2:A huge thing I do I took up this winter is the classic cold plunge. Because it is so good, is that that three to five minutes in the morning, that when it wakes me up? But it makes me breathe, and that's the biggest thing for the cold plunge with me is it makes me breathe and connect back into my body and feel and just sit there and feel, yeah, and that has been a huge thing. This this, since I've had my son through that, has caught me through a lot is is the cold punch and the breathing and actually acupuncture, like there's so many modality, different practitioners out there that can help you and it's hard to sometimes see it like, feel like you should be going to it or not, or you think it's just oh, that self-care it's not self-care, it's not. It's not the Quote on, quote the glamour self-care. That self-care that's helping your mind, it's helping your body, it's helping your health and it's helping you to be a better person. You're feeling your best so you can be your best in all aspects of your life.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm especially as a mom.
Speaker 1:Yes, especially as a mom, I you know cold plunging is one of those things. It's like one of the only things where I cannot think like you really have to Be in your body, be with your breath. I cold plunged on the weekend and I haven't done it for a while. I have a tub, but just sometimes my body's just like it can't handle the. It doesn't always like the fight or flight Suns, even when I come down and and so I do it once in a while and I went into the tub and it was like that, a moment like quiet, and I was like, oh, my god, this is so good. I'm so cold, but this is so good. My mind is finally quiet and, like I said before, it's not something I don't get, you know a break of that very often In my mind, because it's just always Talking to me or about me.
Speaker 1:More about me than anything else. So I would love to tell, I would love for you to share with us what it was like navigating through grief with Two young children, because I know grief is something. There's grief when we experience the loss or trauma or whatever it may be, and then grief is something that never leaves. I always feel like it's this, this treasure box In a way, and sometimes it's closed and sometimes it opens up a little bit and sometimes it opens up all the way and and you never know when it's gonna open or how much it's going to open and how long it's going to last, because it never, really, it never goes away. Grief never leaves, never leaves us, and so I would love to know what it was like to navigate your grief after your father's loss and I know there was a little bit more grief in there as well with the near the birth of your son. So just you know, how was that?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, like everyone checks on you for the first year, right the first milestones, and then everyone things after that, okay, you've got this now and you might. Christmas is on as hard. But my wedding was hard, like I was the first to get married out of but and my two sisters they're younger than me so they haven't got married yet but he wasn't there for that. So that was like the first time where it was like wow, like okay, but like this is that. And that was only about just over a year after he passed, so it was still pretty raw. Then, shortly after I got pregnant with my daughter and that was a lot. At first it was like oh, he's not going to be here for it. But the birth effort actually helped heal a little bit of it with me because you know they're there, he's watching over and he would be so happy type of thing. But I think just the sheer joy of becoming a mom for the first time, it helped heal that. That whole of him miss like not being there for the birth of his first grandchild. But we always joked around because my dad he had three girls. The dog we ended up getting was supposed to be a boy and last minute became a girl and was always a joke like Steve can't have a boy if he ever wanted to, and he was like the ultimate boys boy. He was a sports guy. So when me and my sister's gone to sports he was like all for it, that intense dad, like we need to do this, you need to do dryland training, because he just always needed that sport. It's like he always wanted sports in his life and it was great because he introduced me. Like I'm a huge sports fan too, like he brought me into hockey and football and I'm the biggest fan because of him and it was something. We used to go to games every year together, both hockey and NFL, so that holds a special place.
Speaker 2:So when I found out I was pregnant with my son, it was right before Christmas too, and that brought up grief. I wasn't expecting it. Was that brought up the really like, oh my gosh, he's not here, he's not going to meet any of his grandchildren, he's not going to walk any of his daughters down the aisle, he finally has his boy and he's not here for it. So that I would that. I was brought up more grief than I expected, like some days just sobbing. I mean hormones probably didn't help any of that either, but it brought up a lot of too needing to release stagnant things that I had thought I had released from his grief, and a lot of that was like was what I had to release was a lot of guilt, and that was I holding on.
Speaker 2:I was still holding on to guilt from the day he passed from things I wish I said or did that I didn't do. And at the time, like now, looking back, I realized and forgave myself that I did the best I could at that time. At that time that is what I needed. I needed to not speak to him during that period of time, or I didn't see that if I did that, that was going to happen. We don't know when someone's going to pass suddenly, like at that time, like okay, like you're trusting the doctors, you don't think it's going to come in 24 hours. So you can't, you can't put that burden on yourself, because we always know what we don't know.
Speaker 2:Right, looking back, obviously, if you knew, you would have done something different, but you can't hold on to that and I realized I was still holding on to a lot of that and it took me a few months.
Speaker 2:So when I finally let it go was like I could actually. I could actually breathe again and I felt a bigger connection to him and it has been more joy since he's been here a lot. It was a lot of that during my pregnancy with him was working through this added layer of grief and I was like man who's like. It's been four years later, how is it still coming up? And you realize it's. It's because it's another layer, one of the grief and two of your evolution as a person, your growth as a person and part of your healing journey on this life, and you can either decide to ignore those feelings and push them away, or you can work through the feelings, work through the emotions and work through whatever lessons that is to bring to ultimately help you grow as a human being and as a person and and put you in that next stage of your life and that person you are growing to become.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about working through emotions we talked about this at our last event and I'm always so curious because we hear this a lot you know you have to walk.
Speaker 1:You know move through your emotions, feel your emotions. And sometimes it's easier said than done because I was like how does that logically? Like I remember when I was grieving and I was thinking I'll just roll through this sadness, and then I was like I don't even know what this scene means and you're trying to roll through it with this expectation, like it should just not necessarily be easy, but it there should be some sort of movement, I guess, within it. Like you could almost feel yourself moving through these emotions. So I would love to know what it feels like for you, or what it means to you to go through those emotions. Like what is the steps? Not step by step process, necessarily, but what does that feel like within your body or within your heart or your mind when you are working through these emotions? Because I feel like it's one thing to say it but almost to give it like a tangible experience to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So sometimes I'm told I think too much. And the biggest thing when you're experiencing these emotions is if you need to help, ask for help, ask for help or have someone to talk to. For me, I need to talk through my emotions. So whether I talk with that someone else and whether that's depending where it is, whether I need to go to my therapy or I go for energy work or I talk to a best friend or I talk to my mom or my husband, you talk to somebody because sometimes, talking it out, you'll see what.
Speaker 2:Why are you feeling that way? And for me, when it something comes up, for me it has to come up a couple of times. That emotion has to keep coming up. So, like with my son, at first I thought it was just sadness and Christmas and stuff and it's like nope, this is a heavier grief. Why is this coming up? Where is this coming from?
Speaker 2:And that's where I sit in my thoughts or I sit into the emotion. So because this helps with me, because I'm very self aware of my thoughts and my feelings and my body. So for me, if I'm really struggling, where it's coming from, I will breathe into it and feel where my body. I'm feeling that and usually link that to a chakra center for me. I'll feel it where what chakra it's kind of coming from and seeing where I'm blocked, and then working through where that emotion is sitting and where it's coming from, and then either I'll journal on it or like I'll talk about it, type of thing, and I, that's just for me.
Speaker 2:I talking out everything, communicating my, my thoughts and my feelings, is a big thing for how I work through things. But I really sit there and ask the questions okay, what am I feeling right now? Where is this coming from? What is this trying to tell me? And that can help break down, like why this emotion keeps coming up? Because it's coming up for a reason right, and you can ignore that, you can mask that with anything you want, but ultimately it's going to keep showing up because it's it's a lesson that's there to be learned and and it's a scenario that's coming up to be healed because you're ready for it.
Speaker 1:I love how you brought up the talking through, because I think that's so important, and I also like how you brought up that you do some of it on your own and then you you have guidance or just like the support of somebody else, because I think that's. I think that they're both equally important, because I think we always need help, we always need support, whether it's just someone to listen or whatever it may be, or just to hold a hand and hold space just as it is. But I still think it's very important for us to do it on our own, like I'm just like you when you were talking. I'm like, oh my god, I sound, it sounds just like the kind of but I'm very hyper aware of what's going on in my body, what's going on in my mind, and sometimes I think it's a blessing and sometimes I think it's a curse, like sometimes I wish there's a little bit more easy breezy about things and just let it roll off my back, but I can't. I have to do with it and and work through it. And so I love how you know you brought up the component of talking, because I think that was for myself.
Speaker 1:I felt like that was the biggest thing and I'm not a huge talker of my emotions, of, you know, communicating my emotions I found that to be hard.
Speaker 1:Like I've been married with my husband it'll be 15 years this summer and I feel like after the passing of our son was when, like I actually started opening up and being like, okay, this is what really is happening, because I had to, or our marriage would have dissolved, like we would have just been so far apart from one another that we wouldn't have been able to be together. So I knew I needed to communicate my feelings, because I knew I needed support. I knew I couldn't take this on myself, because it was the first time I ever experienced grief and I didn't really know what was going on in my body, what was going on in my mind, in my heart. I just I was just like I was overwhelming, to say the least. So I really like that you brought up that the, the talking, and and it could be a therapist or a partner or a friend, because I think that is important.
Speaker 2:I think communication is the biggest aspect to any relationship, whether yet it's your spouse, or a part like a friend or anything. Communication in all aspects of our life, whether it's at our job, whether it's advocating for our health. If we can't communicate what we want and what we need, it You're never. You can't just get what you want. There's no one who's good sitting there reading your mind and Waving their little fairy wand. They're going to make your life perfect. You need to learn to ask what you want and and communicate. Communicate that on it's, in it's, within every aspect of life. I think that's the biggest, the biggest thing and the hardest thing for people to work out. Right, yeah, it's hard to ask for what you want and it's hard to ask for help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I always found it hard to ask for what I wanted. I felt like I could ask for help, but asking for what I wanted, and my husband always be like let's stare at me, like Marsha, I can't read your mind. You have to actually say it out loud. I'm like, just go off the expression of my face like I'm like I can't say it because to me I didn't. For me it was a variety of reasons, I think, why I had such a hard time communicating. It was like I didn't want to burden anybody. I think it was one thing with girlfriends inventing and, and that was different. But I felt like if it was like heavier, harder emotions, I didn't want to burden anybody with it. I didn't want. I also didn't want to be looked at differently. At the same time, I didn't want to be looked at as somebody that was hurt or Filled with sadness or anger or resentment. I didn't want to be looked at that way. I wanted to still have the same appearance to that person but still be vulnerable with them at the same time.
Speaker 1:I always said I hated when the passing of my son and we had to talk about it with people that knew that I was pregnant. I hated being looked at with sad eyes. I it it made it worse, it made me not want to talk about it, because I felt like there's this immediate like. I know people like immediately want to hug you and embrace you and be like and a part of me is just like I'm okay right now, like I just I just want to say it and and I want to be the same as before, but I know I'm not the same as before at the same time.
Speaker 1:But it was like the sad eyes like killed me, was the hardest thing. But I know we talk a lot about I know you talked a lot about transparency and you're very transparent with your story and we talked about that a little bit in the DMs as well and how that was important to you. So I Guess this kind of leads me into that same idea of just kind of Not wanting to burden anybody with my darkest stories. But we tend to hide the darkest parts of ourselves because we don't want to burden that or we don't want to fully Expose ourselves and be vulnerable In the fear of judgment or in the fear of a variety of different things. So I would love to know why transparency is so important to you.
Speaker 2:That is true. Like I think the bird and that's the hardest thing for anyone to work on is you don't want to tell the people, you don't want to say exactly how you're feeling, because you don't want them to either. You don't want to feel the pity, you just want to say that sucks, I'm sorry, and then move on like that. Sometimes you just need to get it out. But I totally understand that. But transparency with me is I've always been one. I hate surface-level relationships. Like you know, when you like they're going to like a high school reunion and you see people like oh hey, how are you? What are you, what are you working at now? Oh, how's the weather today? Like I hate those conversations. I'm not that person and I really I like to build deeper Connections with people and the only way you get that through that is transparency. Because at the day even though and I used to think this, like I used to think, no one knows what I'm going through, no one understands, but Everyone has been there has been someone who has gone through what you've gone through. There is someone who has been through worse than you and there's someone who's been through not as Hard times as you. There's going to be people on every level and there's always somebody who's dealing with something that you don't know about, because we're in the brought up in society to always look like you're okay, like my dad's classic line was like suck it up, princess, like you don't. You don't show people weakness, you don't like that was something that was brought up by our parents and instilled into us. Like you don't show emotion, you show you're okay. You show you're strong. If you're struggling, you don't let people know and that's that's not life. That is not life. So why, why can't we talk about the hard times? That's how you build Deeper connections with people. That's how you build relationships. That's how you build deeper friendships of and Relationships, even with family members that they'll understand now what you're going through or maybe why you've been acting that way, or People to like count on, because surface level relationships, those aren't going to be the people who are going to be there for you on the tough times. It's creating those deeper relationships and and transparency and telling people your story and Knowing that you're not alone and there are other people going out there. You can ask for help or have somebody. That's, for me, is that. Anytime I share, though people will message me like, oh, I've been through something like that and it's great to have that conversation with somebody else, because Sometimes, even if they're, they are a stranger for somebody who knows how you're feeling, because maybe there isn't anybody in your life who's going through something you're going through and you need to find somebody who's going through.
Speaker 2:And I just I'm not a good secret keeper. If it's somebody else's secret I can keep that, but my own secrets? Like I Just don't know why there's all these. Everything has to be a secret. Or like, if it's something that's happened, I'm like, well, why can't I tell somebody that like some of the stuff like what? You just don't say that or bring that up. I'm like, why not? That's what happened, that's the truth. Like I don't understand why we can't talk about it. I'm like I will talk about everything to the death and I think that's more healthier than putting on the face and Keeping things secret, then not telling the truth. Like my mom always says, you think I always knew when you're lying. You were the worst at telling what.
Speaker 1:I was.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I know I am, because I'm not good at it, because I don't like to tell lies.
Speaker 1:It's so true, I can relate to that. So much about the transparency. Like I always say, I'm kind of shy online, but if you meet me in person, it's verbal diarrhea all the time. I'll tell you my deepest dark of secrets Because I think it's important. I think it allows us to have this different form of human connection, of this feeling that we're not alone.
Speaker 1:My husband is a big secret keeper and he's a big secret keeper from me, which is funny because we've been married for so long and he's still not a big, wide, open book where I'm just like what? Well, usually I'm quiet and then he's like, tell me, I know you, portia, and I'm like, okay, and then I just like vomit on it and then, and then I'm like, oh, I feel so much better. But then I'm thinking he never says anything to me, like I feel like this is the one-way street here, but I I think With through that I have learned I see him and I see him holding the burdens of his secrets and and how much it has control over him and how it just does something to him, gives him this, this harder edge, where for me, I'm open and Fluid and I don't feel like I'm holding the weight of everything. Like we dealt with the grief, the loss of our son, in very different ways. For him it was a secret.
Speaker 1:He liked that secret, he liked to keep it close to him. He didn't want anybody to know. He didn't want anybody to know that he was struggling. He told the people that needed to know and that was it. And like he wasn't even gonna tell his family, like because it just One, I don't think he wanted to burden him, them with that weight. And to I think, because it already was said and done, he was like why bother? But to me I'm like, oh my god, I wanted to tell my whole extended family and everyone was like, no, but I'm like, but this has to, I have to tell them something because I can't wear this mask of happiness Forever. Like this happened right before Christmas. I had to go sit in Christmas dinner four days after and I'm like, how do you know?
Speaker 2:How am I?
Speaker 1:supposed to sit there smiling and so excited that Christmas is here and celebrating, and I want to just be in my bed in a dark hole and Not come out for a little bit because I'm just unsure of what really just happened to me, to my body, to our family, to everything, and not only knowing that two other people other than my husband in that room knew and there was like 20 something people there, like it was and to me it's like if we just said it then I could just be myself and I could roll through my emotions and I could leave and no one had to say anything or do anything to support me.
Speaker 1:But it just it took so much of that weight away from Trying to put this facade on for how many hours and it was like that so long throughout because of this weight of this secret, and Eventually I just said to my husband.
Speaker 1:I said I have to tell, I have to tell people. I can't hold this anymore, because I am such a different person from this experience that people are going to notice and they're going to wonder why, and I want them to know, because there are so many other women out there that have experienced something similar to this, have experienced a loss like this, and I know how isolating it was when I went through it, like I don't want that for any other person out there, man or woman, because it was awful. And so I think, like I'm a huge advocate of transparency is key, obviously, finding the right people, because, you know, I trusted some people with that and it didn't necessarily work Well, I guess, on my behalf, who I thought were friends weren't necessarily my friends, but you know, you live and learn. I guess a little bit.
Speaker 2:But I think, like you had said, I think it's so important as as humans, as human beings with emotions and different stories, and that we can learn so much from one another From those stories like we know, like life is a roller coaster and it has the beauties and the ups and downs, that there's no need to be ashamed of bad things that have happened to you or shortcomings you, you live, you learn, you grow and you move on to right, to a certain degree anyway.
Speaker 2:But it's true, everyone deals with everything differently, and not that anyone there's one right way to deal with anything in life. Right, you need to do what's best for you, but for some people to Stuff it down and to hide and to not talk about it, that makes it worse and then that ultimately holds on to the hurt and the pain so much longer. And then, like you said, once you're able to tell everybody, you're finally able to let it go and heal and and breathe and move on and start to grow from that, from that terrible incident like not incident, terrible, like experience in your life.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, it's very interesting and yeah it was. It was an experience at the time where I was like oh my gosh type of thing, like I don't know how I'm going to get out of this, and then afterwards I was like so grateful Not so grateful that I went through it, because I don't wish that upon anybody but it was just one of those experiences where I was like, wow, I learned so much about myself. It allowed our marriage to be something that probably would not be if that didn't happen, and it was a great reminder of life in general and how fragile it is and how we're not always promised a second day, like you have said. Like it's, it just can be gone. My last question for you is what is one piece of advice that you would like to leave here with everybody?
Speaker 2:Well, we kind of already talked about it, but I think that my biggest piece of advice is communication and asking for help when you need it, because that will save your life Figuratively and emotionally and on every level. We can't do everything alone, but no one's going to give us the help that we don't seek for or we don't ask for. And sometimes it's hard to do that and sometimes you get a door in your face or it's not the proper answer you want. But the more you can ask and communicate your needs and your wants in life, the more the strong I feel like. The stronger you become, the more confident you become.
Speaker 2:And life isn't easy. It's never going to be easy. There's going to be great years, there's going to be tough years and there's going to be harder moments, right? So if you can communicate what you want, that that is going to, that's going to be the ultimate tool that you need to succeed in this life. That is what I have learned. Anyway. For me, that has been my, my greatest gift and strength that I have worked on over over these last 10 years.
Speaker 1:So I just have a secondary question to that, yeah usually I end here.
Speaker 1:But I have a question, and it just comes to me, For those that are listening that are like I know I need to ask for help and because, whatever the circumstance may be, but they are really just struggling to get the words out or just even get that that momentum moving. What advice would you give to those people that are listening that are like I know what I'm supposed to be doing but I'm having such a hard time getting there, Like what was your when you first started, you know, asking for help, what was, like, the first thing you asked for?
Speaker 2:When I first asked for help, I think I went to one of my best friends, someone that I knew we all, most people have that friend that you know you can be open and vulnerable for, and she gave me a different lens of maybe you should talk to X, y and Z, and for me that was talking. I went, that was talking to my natural path and my family doctor. And I did both because I'm just very holistic point of view for helping me in that sense. And then with my family doctor, which led me to starting therapy. But it's finding that safe place.
Speaker 2:And if you don't have that safe place, then going to any professional, whether it's your chiropractor, whether it's your massage therapist, whether it's your doctor, somebody if you need a third party that has no, that is not connected to you that way, that is a great way to start because they can also give you advice on where to start if you need help. That's from completely unbiased, unadjective point of view, right, but usually for me it's fine going to that one person. That's your safe place, that you can just ask for help, and usually that's a friend, I find, because friends are just usually not all friends, but you know what I mean, you always have that one person that you're like I can tell you anything to, and there's going to be absolutely zero judgment here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I love that.
Speaker 1:I think that's important and I love how you mentioned, like, the unbiased opinion as well, because I think that is just equally as important, because sometimes our friends have our backs more than sometimes we want them to have different situations like you do want them to be, that you know, have the other opinion or you know, but, but I think it is important to have an unbiased opinion as well, to kind of give you a little bit more clarity or direction as to as to where to go without actually knowing, knowing you and your circumstance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, nicole, thank you so much for being here Such a pleasure and thank you so much for being vulnerable and in sharing your story and being so transparent. Thank you, my pleasure.
