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Healing from Betrayal and Building Trust Anew with Stephanie
When the ground beneath you gives way, how do you rebuild the world around you? Join me, Portia Chambers, as I sit down with the remarkable Stephanie from Beacon Coaching and Leadership, who bravely shares her voyage through the storm of personal transformation after the earthquake of betrayal. Her story is a beacon for anyone navigating the complex process of healing, demonstrating that while infidelity can dismantle the life you know, it can also be a catalyst for discovering a truer, more resilient self.
Stephanie's vulnerability in recounting the waves of anger, grief, and the journey to forgiveness offers an intimate roadmap for others in similar situations. Our conversation moves through the murky waters of shame and societal stigma, revealing how Stephanie reclaimed her identity separate from her spouse's actions and made self-care her compass. Her insights remind us that while the scars of betrayal are deep, they don't have to chart our course; instead, they can be the very markings that guide us to a more profound connection with ourselves and our partners.
As we anchor the discussion, Stephanie illuminates the path to rebuilding trust, emphasizing the role of open, honest dialogue in the healing process. It's a journey marked by small moments of shared joy and the mentorship that can rekindle the fire in a once-smoldering relationship. This episode is an ode to the beauty of our brokenness and the incredible resilience of the human spirit. It’s an invitation to witness the power of turning life's most formidable challenges into cornerstones of personal growth and enduring partnerships.
Learn more about Stephanie @beacon_coachingca
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Join me, Portia Chambers, as I sit down with women just like you, sharing moments in their lives that shape them into who they are today Stories of motherhood, betrayal, transformation, love and loss, Vulnerable conversations, deep connection and collective healing. Welcome to the this Is we podcast. So I am so excited to have our next guest here with us. Stephanie is a high-energy coffee-drinking, naturally curious problem solver who likes to push the limits. As the founder of Beacon Coaching and Leadership, she is a coach and mentor for ambitious people who want to grow their confidence, crush limiting beliefs and discover their full potential.
Speaker 1:Stephanie doesn't take life too seriously. Each day, she seeks joy and laughter like medicine. Her husband of 30 years and her three children love to hang out together, share funny stories and enjoy live music. You can often find her dancing on the beach, curled up with a good book, or running on a trail listening to a motivational podcast, or playing air guitar to all the John Mayer songs. Stephanie is a firm believer that nothing is impossible when you know who you are and have solid support. So welcome Stephanie. I'm so happy you are here.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, portia, I'm excited to be here too.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's just dive right into your story, or one of your stories. I think we all are compiled of all these moments in our lives. So when we were talking about stories that you wanted to share, this one stood out to me the most, and it was how I became a healthier, more authentic person, because my husband had an affair. So please, you know, shine a little bit more light on you know this time in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's probably not something that most people would say about their spouse cheating on them or going through the really excruciating pain of betrayal, but in fact it did help me to become a healthier version of myself. It helped me to soften some of my pointy, prickly edges and it helped me to really get deep on who I am. Because of this massive blow, you know, this crisis in our marriage which caused basically everything to just come to a crushing halt, we had to do work like we just had to. We could either just, you know, bury it, try to forget about it or just leave each other, or we could do the more difficult, more courageous thing and figure out why this happened. And in that process I really learned a lot about myself and I've now I just feel so much more grounded and that I can like. The resilience that I built is incredible and also the compassion that I have for myself and for other people has definitely grown.
Speaker 1:I love how you brought up the compassion piece, because I think that's something that in those moments is not something that you would necessarily would gain out of all of that. You would think it almost be like the opposite side of the spectrum, of like the emotional spectrum where it'd be a lot of those negative, you know, really heavy emotions. And it kind of takes me to the next question is how did you move through all of those really big emotions like betrayal, anger, sadness, blame, even grief in a way? Because you are grieving that past relationship and you're now moving into this new relationship with your husband.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so don't get me wrong, this is 12 years out, you know, from crisis, so we have gone through and done a lot of work, but, wow, yeah, the beginning stages.
Speaker 2:I mean, nothing prepares you for the shock and literally the grief that you feel when the person who loves you the most, is the closest to you, the one that you're supposed to have the most security and trust the most, has completely obliterated, you know, all of those commitments, vows, and has been so deceitful and deceptive that you can't even make sense of your world anymore. So all of those emotions that you just, you know that you just explained, are, for sure, part of the shocking experience of being, you know, discovering that your partner has, in fact, you know, had an affair or cheated, or has a secret pornography addiction or anything that just really takes you into that space of infidelity, whether it's emotional or it's physical. Yeah, like I mean it's. Even though it's 12 years out, I can still remember, you know, that moment, like it was yesterday and again, it's not about you know, forgetting about it, but you create space to grow and to have other things in your life that you can still experience joy. But I am a person who does get angry easily. You know my kids will always notice that moment before you know mom's gonna pop. Mom's gonna pop because I get, you know, agitated, irritated, frustrated, and then I am a demonstrative angry person so it bursts.
Speaker 2:So in that moment I can tell you that after he confessed of his affair, I ran upstairs and grabbed every single wedding picture and just threw them down the stairs and smashed them. Profanity spewed from my mouth Probably. I know that I probably hit him a few times. I'd just come home from the drugstore so I was holding a bottle of tide and a carton of milk which I threw through the wall and splattered everywhere. And you know, thankfully our kids were all at overnight camp so I could be as loud and as angry, and if I could just stretch it as I wanted to be.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, just that extreme sadness, like you do move through the stages of grief you definitely do in a profound way. And it is not linear, it is not like first I felt this and then I felt that it moves around. It's crazy making. There's a lot of shame. That's involved as well. To get my anger out and to process all of those emotions, I just I let them out. I had no other way. I couldn't suppress them, so I punched a lot of pillows, I screamed in the shower. I bought cheap glasses from Dalarama so I could just like literally grab one and run outside and smash it on the ground when I needed to release. You feel all of that because it is exactly like you said. It's the loss of a marriage that I thought I had. It died. It literally died and it feels like a death by a thousand cuts.
Speaker 1:Wow, I feel like as you're talking, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I couldn't.
Speaker 1:I couldn't even imagine I think, like you had said, there is a little bit of a blessing and disguise that your children were away at an away camp.
Speaker 1:So you could fully express, because I couldn't imagine being told that with the children in the house and then having to be like okay and like walk upstairs as if nothing had happened, like it.
Speaker 1:I loved how you released it and I loved how you had just different ways of you know screaming and punching a pillow and smashing like smashing a glass, like to me that just sounds so cathartic because I know for myself like when I get angry I just like close my fist and kind of vibrate and then that's it and sometimes I will go in my car and scream at the top of my lungs and I feel so much better, like I'm not holding on to those emotions Like it is like they almost need to kind of just release out of your body. I want to go back kind of a little bit of a step, and you did mention how you found out. Your husband told you when you got home from the drugstore, but shed some a little bit more light on that situation, not necessarily the affair itself, but just kind of what was going through your mind. You know, even that day, in the days after finding out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've heard a lot of betrayal stories, because you know, once you, once you experience something, you go seeking to not feel so alone in it. So you look at how other people have experienced this type of trauma and it was like a regular day, literally. It was a summer, you know, hot day I had. The youth group was at my house earlier, so there were still like bowls of chips on the table. I poured myself a glass of wine.
Speaker 2:My husband was in a couple of different bands at that time. He is a musician. Well, he he's a. He has a side passion for music. He works in corporate, but so he was out at band practice that night and typically now realizing why, but typically he would come home, you know, very late, like well past midnight, when he had band practice, and so that was my expectation. So a port of glass of wine. Notice that there wasn't any milk in the fridge for coffee in the morning.
Speaker 2:So, you know, I grabbed my, my bag and my phone and was pleasantly surprised to see him standing in the hallway and I was like, oh great, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to drugstore and to go grab some milk. What do you pour yourself a glass of wine, we'll have date night. You know like who. He's home at 11. And he kind of had this weird look on his face Like do you have to go now? And you know, I'm like I won't be long. And then he texted me while I was there and I thought that's really strange, like he doesn't usually check in on me. Like are you, you know, are you almost done?
Speaker 2:So I got home and, as I said, I was holding the tide and the milk and he was sitting in the corner on the couch looking super forlorn, like I've never. Like it was just very clear. Something was incredibly wrong. Class of wine beside him. And I just looked at him and I thought, oh, my goodness, something really bad has happened. And through my mind, three things, you know, just popped up. His mom had been really sick for a while. So, you know, I just, instead of letting him talk, I interrupted and just guessed Is it your mom? No, she's, no, she's, she's fine. You had an affair.
Speaker 2:And he said yes, and I could not believe, like I did not think that that was what it was going to be. I was super shocked, like just my body froze and I mean, you know, when you go into that kind of experience, your body has that sympathetic nervous system reaction. So you know you're either gonna freeze, you're gonna have the fight or flight. I think I went through all of them at the same time, but I just literally throw a froze and I thought you have got to be kidding me and, of course, hit the look on his face. And he would never kid about something like that. So I just knew that it was true and I could not believe it, because we were that couple that people would come to us and say, like how do you guys do it? Like you guys are so happy, like you're each other's best friend, like what's the secret sauce? And at that point we had been married for 19 years and dated for nine years before that. So like we knew each other. I mean, we were each other's, you know, bestie, and that was kind of it for life.
Speaker 2:So this was a blow that I never expected and I, portia, I literally like went into a free fall with nothing to hold on to. I had no roadmap for this kind of crisis, like it never entered my mind that he would. Maybe I might, you know, but I never thought that he would. He's just that kind of guy and everybody who you know, who found out or who we told, not one person said oh yeah, I could see that. Ah yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Nobody, everybody was in total shock. So he did. I'd like to say that he was courageous and just came forward and confessed. But they were confronted and they had to. So the reason for his nervousness of me going out was because she was telling her husband and he was telling me at the same time. So he totally expected that I'd come home and he'd be like in a pool of blood because he'd been beaten. Yeah, just that.
Speaker 2:It was just such a surreal moment, and one that was, you know, when time stands, still like when you get bad news, like really bad news, like somebody just died or somebody was in a car crash or you got the cancer diagnosis or whatever it is you just stop, like everything just stops, and then the cycle starts happening about like well, where were you when you said this and where were you? And then your whole life feels like, or at least your time together, feels like it was built on a lie, like was everything a lie, like what else are you deceiving me of and what else wasn't true and what else. And it is a crazy making time. So, anyway, that was late at night, after all the profanity and the you know, the crashing and the walls breaking et cetera, we went upstairs and we did something completely normal which is so weird but there was laundry on the bed and we just stood there and folded Without saying anything. We folded the laundry, put it away.
Speaker 2:Obviously he was completely stressed out and emotionally wrecked because of, just you know, being confronted the day before and then having to go through all of this and the stress of like actually being in a fair. All of that is like I'm really sorry, but I'm exhausted. And he fell asleep and I'm like, wow, that's really sweet, that's awesome. How can you do that, where I literally stayed awake all night long, like not one ounce of sleep, and at this point I hadn't cried yet. But then I picked.
Speaker 2:I was about six o'clock in the morning, I picked up my phone and I looked up what to do after an affair and I thought this is me, this is my life. No, not us. And the realization just hit me and I thought, okay, I'm one of those women now and I just started bawling and he woke up and he said because our pastor of our church was the one that actually spoke to them and he said, you know he's willing to come over, let's call him. And I said no, it's six o'clock in the morning, that's ridiculous and I don't want anybody to know. Like you know, that's so shameful. And he's like we need help.
Speaker 2:And so we made a pot of coffee. Our pastor came over. We all hugged, we cried, and I think the moment that gave me some glimmer of hope was watching my husband across from me literally melt, like he sobbed and sobbed and went into this almost like convulsion, and he couldn't stop crying and he was just so clearly remorseful. He took on all the responsibility. There was never any finger pointing like, well, if you hadn't done this or you didn't do that, or you know this was because of schedules. And da da, da, he took on fully the responsibility of the choice that he had made. He was so broken and he wanted to repair. So we started the long process of the repair.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about shame a little bit, because you brought it up a few times and you know you said I don't want. Now I'm one of those women and I kind of want to talk about that. So kind of talking about the shame around in a fair and how you hear somebody like we've had, my husband and I, many summers ago, went to probably eight weddings in one summer and more than half of those people are divorced and a lot of those people had affairs and there was always this such a negative context around it and so I want to talk about that shame and, like you had said, I didn't want anybody to know and so I would love, if you're comfortable, to kind of open up a little bit more about the shame around, as you being the one having not necessarily having the affair, but on the other side of the table- yeah, and that's such a great question and a really good point to unpack, because there's so much shame.
Speaker 2:There's so much shame on both sides and for different reasons. And I just want to preface this too by saying that my husband has given me full permission to talk about this Again. I'm not gonna really talk about his experience because that's his own story, but we kind of promised each other that we would use our story to help others and we are not ashamed of it anymore. So we've grown through that and I think that that's definitely testament to the hard work. But this problem of shame, where it feels deeply rooted in I am a mistake or I am the identity that you take on. Like I recognize that that although this had happened to me, it wasn't my identity, I wasn't gonna walk around with the label of wife who was cheated on or betrayed wife, like I did not want to walk around with that label and I also realized that it didn't define me but it certainly helped to refine me. So the shame part of it is multi-layered for sure. And, to your point, there's that cultural shame of even if people are not judging you, there's a perception that they are, and I have to admit my own terrible previous judgments about other people who were going through that. I would filter through well, what did she do wrong? Or what didn't she do? Or I guess because she's such a bitch or she's this or she's that like, oh, I could see why he would do that. And it's so, so wrong to do that, because typically it's never the betrayed person's fault, never your spouse. Your spouse made a decision to do something which is incredible, but it was their choice. And sure, every marriage has problems. Every human has imperfections, like none of us are, you know, living up to a standard of perfection. So but to point fingers and blame, for some sort of idiotic reason, why you think that person had an affair or why you think the spouse who was cheated on, you know, deserved it is, I'd like to just sort of strike that from anybody's mind.
Speaker 2:And but there is that sense. And I remember having a conversation with one of my friends, like a few days after it had all come out, and I sat there with her and I said I don't want to be that woman and she goes, well, you are. And I thought, wow, she was. And it's not that you are, but that people may judge you and there's nothing you can do about that. The only thing you can do is take care of yourself, is to become, you know, a better person, to not let that take you down, like what are you going to do, stephanie? Are you going to fight? You know, for yourself, for your own, you know your own reputation, for your own sanity, for what you want to. You know, become the person that you are and and the and one of the worst things to do, too, is to shame your spouse for what they did.
Speaker 2:My husband's pain, like he was in pain as well and hurt, and but but it was different. It was a different kind of pain and hurt. It was that realization of how could I have done something? And and how could I have done something that I never, ever thought I would do. And I think that that's a really good point too, because what I've learned as well is that we're all capable of it. Literally, we are all capable of it, given the right circumstance, the right pressure, the right mood, the right little, you know, a little bit of attention from somebody else. We're all very capable of crossing that line, but it's, it's the decision of why would I not do that? You know, and there was a question that I asked my husband like shortly after, because you know he kept saying I it's not like. I woke up one day and said I'd like to have an affair. She didn't go looking for it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And and a really good question, and this is one that I think anybody in a relationship should ask, and we might get to this at the end when, you know, give some advice or something. But what I said to him was okay, so you weren't looking for an affair, but what were you doing to protect yourself from having one? Right, like, I think that that is a great conversation, like literally a conversation to have with your spouse. How are we going to a fair proof our marriage and it? And it might seem shocking and kind of a little bit awkward to have that conversation because the first thing would be like, well, I'd never do that. Yeah, you know I love you too much and I wouldn't want. I would never, I wouldn't do it and I don't expect you would either.
Speaker 2:But again, each one of us can, the circumstance is capable, and when we find ourselves even getting close to that line, getting close to that edge, you know you can look somebody up. I wonder what my old boyfriend's doing. Let me just check him out on Facebook. Why are you doing that? Like really sick. Your motivation, for why am I spending a little extra time looking nice in case I bump into this person at work that I sort of enjoy talking to or makes me feel good, or looking for reasons to have a conversation, or maybe just you know texting back and forth a little bit too frequently and too long and you know deleting emails and deleting texts because maybe it was getting a bit too intimate or you know just a little bit too personal. And as soon as you find yourself doing things like that, you have to really step back and say what the heck am I doing?
Speaker 1:I love how you brought that up, because I think that's something that almost seems harmless, in a way like oh, I'm just, I'm just being nosy, I'm just curious. You know, I like having this conversation with them, but I really like like I'm not thinking in my own. I think I'm going to have this conversation with my husband and I know immediately he will have his backup. Like I can't believe you would assume that this would happen, but I think it's a great conversation to have and we have a very strong relationship and are very good at communicating. So I feel like, why not, like, even if he does kind of get his backup? I think it's still so important to have yeah, and the stronger marriages.
Speaker 2:like it should be kind of a no brainer to have that conversation. So, as I said, we're, you know, we attend church and but here's the like almost ridiculous thing. So our church at the time we don't attend that one anymore, but we were sitting there and they were talking about an upcoming marriage retreat. That was happening. My husband grabbed my hand and he said you know, our marriage is so great and so strong, we could teach that course. Like we don't have to go to that because we're already like we already have a great marriage. He held my hand and looked at me. 10 days later he entered an affair. Wow. So it's a very slippery slope and it's a slow drip.
Speaker 2:And again going back to having the conversation with your spouse is just like, hey, let's have, let's have a marriage mission statement or marriage manifesto or what are the values that ground our marriage? Like, like any organization that's healthy and thriving and does well has a vision, mission and mission and value statement. Have that for your marriage, have it for your family, read it over frequently and then if something gets you know, dishonored or changes, then ask about it. Hey, what changed? Because we agreed to this, like having those transparent conversations not only protects your marriage but it builds a healthy, deeper, more intimate relationship. And that's what we crave, to right. We crave the security, we crave the belonging, we crave the intimacy, and true intimacy is into me. You see, the minute that you have kind of a weird thought or you know you've done something and you don't want your spouse to know about it, you covered up, you do half truths, you embellish something. That's the moment where you go Wait a second, I need to come forward with this and I think transparency is hugely underrated in marriages.
Speaker 2:I think we should feel safe to be able to talk about anything and everything, even the weird, awkward stuff, like especially that stuff, and even the stuff that you think is silly, like I work with a lot of women now and you know, sometimes you know I remember this this younger woman who was recently married and she said I have this, really that I can't, I can't shake this thought that I had and it's so completely ridiculous and silly, but it's driving me crazy. And like then bring it to your husband. Oh, he'll just laugh at me, like it's so ridiculous and like, if it's bothering you, you're important to him. You can preface it by saying I have this really silly thought, but I can't shake it and I just need to share it with you. So do you have a moment to listen to me? And again there's the compassion.
Speaker 2:Piece right Is having this desire to want to know your person and to want to be there for them, that nothing is too silly, ridiculous, goofy, awkward. And have and share those moments Like now, because we know our we know our love languages, we know our fight languages, we know how to resolve conflict, we know what topics are going to kind of, you know, rub us the wrong way, but yet we still talk. We don't avoid them. We might take a little while to process them, but then we always, always say hey, I have something that I need to talk to you about, and please just listen and hear me out, and then I would love to have your feedback, or then we can have a discussion.
Speaker 1:We talked about having a conversation with your friend and I kind of wanted to talk about sympathy and how how that was for you, Because I know for myself I always said, especially when we lost our son, I I didn't love when people looked at me with sad eyes that's what I would call it Because it was almost like they were feeling sorry for me. And it wasn't necessarily a situation to feel sorry for me, Like I was okay, I know bad thing happened, but I kind of just wanted them to look at me as me, not with, like this, sad eyes lens in a way. So I kind of want to talk a little bit about that with you know, sympathy from others and how that kind of resonated with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think very much like yourself. I didn't want people to look at me with this label with sad eyes, with, like, a feeling of pity, right, like I really, because I'm I am not that person and I do. I do. I am a very strong person, I am very independent. I was grown up that way, like I. That was kind of the household that we lived in. It was also, you know that, that that school of thought of like don't let them see you cry, you know, kind of pull up your bootstrap, that sort of thing. And not that I wasn't that because I think I am that kind of person.
Speaker 2:But the other thing that I had to learn to was to actually ask for help and that I am not as strong as I proclaim myself to be. In all the posturing and perfecting and performing is not going to protect me from hardship. And so what I did learn was that some people just don't have the capacity to really understand, right, some people don't have the ability to be empathetic as opposed to sympathetic, and empathy is different. It's like, wow, I could totally feel what you're going and put myself in your shoes and that must be really hard, which then leads to compassion of like well, how can I help you? Right? That feels more authentic. However, some people just really don't have the capacity to be able to even understand what you're going through. They've not been through anything themselves. So they will have sympathy for you, and I think I had to learn to like just regard their reaction as their own, not as a reflection of who I am. So some people will be sympathetic and look at me with sad eyes and, you know, have pity on me, and I think too.
Speaker 2:I think that the real reason why people do that, honestly, portia, is because they want to figure out how they can avoid that situation that you've gone through, Right. So it's too shocking for them to even have a level of empathy where, again, they could think, well, that that could happen to me too. It's like I need to understand everything that happened, that went on, so that I can protect myself against it ever happening. So I had a lot of questions like oh well, you know, what did you do, or what did he do, or how did it happen, and I mean those are good questions. But then my question back to people is like, why do you need to know that? Like, what's your reason for knowing, because if it's to help you have a better, healthier marriage, then I'd love to share. But if it's just so that you can know the salacious details, so that you can try to like avoid it in your own life, then no yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love how you determine, how you determine that in the conversations that you are having with people, because I think people ask the questions, like you had said, to kind of be nosy in a way, to get all the information and some do it with good and some do it with kind of bad intentions as well, and so I love how you brought that up and kind of determining you know what and having that question back like what is really your true intention to these questions? Yeah, so I want to talk about your relationship with yourself and how that has changed since the affair. So you talked about becoming a healthier, more authentic person. So how did that come to be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, as I said, you know, I had to let go of the pride, like I had to really let go of the fact that like hey, I'm a strong person, I can do this myself. You know it's me against the world. I became healthier when I allowed others to help, when we genuinely you know, with open hands said we have nowhere with all on how to manage this experience in our life because we hadn't been through it before. But instead of, you know, continuing to add shame and, and you know, hide ourselves away and pretend it didn't happen or, you know, shove it under the carpet and just like hope it's going to, like we're going to get over it. It's way too big for that. So becoming healthier for me was literally the most courageous thing that we did was after our pastor handed us a card. Like you guys need a counselor, here you go. Walking through the door of that counseling office was probably the most courageous thing that I had done in my 46 years of living up to that time. Because what are people going to think? Not only that, but we walked through the door and I was like, oh, there's people we know here. Like kind of like oh my God, why are you guys here? What's wrong with you? So that was humbling again and I think like, and we needed a village. We didn't just need one counselor that we could keep it quiet and like, not not tell anybody, but we literally needed a village because there was, there was a huge ripple effect A lot of people knew and so we needed to. We just we needed all the supports. So not only were we in counseling together and separately, but we also had our older kids with us in that, because my husband was like I'm, I'm, I don't want to lie anymore, I have to come out with this. We shared with, you know, a few close friends and then our families and people brought us meals, they looked after our kids, they cleaned our house.
Speaker 2:I had my first panic attack at 1 30 in the morning, called my friend who gave me an out of van. I'm like, well, now I'm on meds, okay, awesome, this is great. I had to be truthful with my doctor about what was happening because I was rapidly losing weight, couldn't sleep at night. I mean the, the, the images and the intrusive thoughts are like unrelenting. It's it's moment by moment by moment by moment. I mean I could have, like, you know, I remember a few months after and it was like like probably both didn't think about it, like, oh my gosh, I had freedom for 15 minutes because I was focused on something I was doing at work and that just felt so good.
Speaker 2:I thought, okay, I have 15 minutes of this and I can. Maybe I could have a half an hour of it. Maybe I could literally go for an hour where I'm not thinking about this all the time. So, yeah, therapy. I hired a life coach, and one that had been through the same thing as me. I found that that was very helpful, right, because this person has intimate lived experience with betrayal and she was far enough away from it that she could coach me and guide me and mentor me, but not, you know, be breakdown with me but she could like like hold me up, and I knew she got it.
Speaker 2:That was the thing too. It was like I'm not just talking to you about something that you find theoretical, but you've lived this and so I'm trusting your guidance. I joined recovery groups. Actually, my husband first went to this recovery group and then he suggested that I might go like about four months later, to which I was very irate and I was like, hey, your problem, not mine. You go to the recovery group, I don't need recovery and goes well, you have a hurt. I don't have an addiction, so it's not just for that, it's for people who have hurts, habits and hang ups, and you have a hurt and I can do as much as I can, but I can't help. I can't help you, like, with everything. So maybe you'll find, you know, some kind of healing and just support within the women's group of it, which I did.
Speaker 2:And then I read books and watched, you know videos, and we watched them together and we listened to podcasts together, which was really great, because if we were reading the same book together or we were watching the same like helpful you know video or something that strengthen your marriage together, we could ask each other afterwards, and I think the part that really helped us the most was deciding, just choosing to stay together until we could, until we decided we weren't going to which, by the way, now we're celebrating 31 years of marriage, so, again, it was 12 years ago, so but doing things together like that and then having the permission to be able to discuss it in a way that wasn't highly charged and emotional, but more conversational, so that we could start to really understand each other and no questions were, you know, like off of the the you know, and we could ask anything that we wanted, and maybe we we wouldn't be able to answer it right away, but we would always come back with an answer and some of the questions. So here's something that I would definitely Advise women who are going through the same sort of thing be really Careful about the questions you ask, because if you're striving to have truth and transparency in your marriage, where previously there was deception and lies, um, and your spouse wants to be as truthful as they can, because they want to, you know, rebuild the trust, just be really careful about the questions you ask, because once you ask it and you get your answer, you can't really delete that from your mind and the emotional response to an event that's Traumatic, the emotional repetition of that is more painful than the actual event itself. I remember hearing that and thinking oh, my goodness said so. True, somebody was talking about their their ski accident and breaking their leg. And the doctor said Okay, the pain of the injury Is painful, but the pain of the recovery is going to be more painful.
Speaker 2:And it's true, it takes a very, very long time to recover from something like this. This is very deeply wounding. It's an injury like no other. Um, it affects you emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally, physically. Everything is affected. Your whole entire being is affected. And it's not a bounce back quick.
Speaker 2:And the thing is that people can't see your injury Right because it's not external. Like if you got hit by a bus. Everybody would see, oh my goodness, you've got, you know, concussions and bruises and broken bones and you're, you have a cast and you're walking and and it might take you two years to recover From that. You know, being hit by a bus and everybody will see it and they can provide you with support and help and care because it's obvious. But with betrayal it's not obvious and even two years later it's still. You're still working on the recovery, where a lot of people and let's go back to the shame thing like you're not over that yet. Oh my gosh, it happened two years ago, the, the, probably the.
Speaker 2:The best and worst piece of advice that our counselor gave us on the first visit was this is not an easy process, so don't just think that, because you know the affair lasted for three months, that it's going to take three months to get over this or to get through it or to work through it. She said typically it's a two to five year recovery process. And I thought, yeah, like, like, thank you for letting me know, because now I, I I have sort of a timeline and I'm not my expectations Of, like, okay, well, in three months we should be good, six months or next year, like we'll just, we'll laugh about it. Or, you know, a friend of mine said oh, can you imagine, like like five years from now, you guys wake up and go, oh my gosh, remember that happened and I was thinking really, okay, no, that doesn't happen, that's, that's ridiculous, like literally ridiculous. So having that timeline was helpful, but it also made me irate. I remember screaming at him in the parking lot after we left there For three lucky months of pleasure. You put me and a whole bunch of people into recovery for five years. Are you kidding me? What were you thinking right? Which is a question that's very difficult to answer, because they weren't thinking.
Speaker 2:You know somebody who's in that state, isn't they confused, particularly distorted, insecure, stressed, out place where there's some sort of void in their life? Um, and it's not, it's not you, it's not like the, you know the spouse, it's. It's that there's something going on. When you feel that way that's what I'm saying when you feel that way, come to your spouse and say, hey, I've noticed that I'm not feeling all myself, I'm, I'm depressed or I'm sad or I'm irritated more than I should be. I just don't want to do something stupid. So let's work on this together. You know, if you, if you can't pack the car to go to the cottage and you're having like a huge fight, go to counseling, like literally, and for any little reason, just go have a mediator, have somebody else who can hear you out and that can Help you with the questions and ask you about the things that are deep, that you're not either willing to talk about or you just don't even know are there.
Speaker 1:It kind of brings me back, like when you're talking about your betrayal story and and everything. It really brings me back to when we lost our son. Even though it's not the same thing, the emotions are very similar and the timeline of healing is very similar and the expectations of others are very similar in the sense like you're not over that or You're you know, three years past and then all of a sudden you're, you know it, kind of Recomes back up again. That's what happened to me, like I thought I was over the loss and I thought I was fine and then it came back up two and a half years later and I was like I guess I'm not fine and everyone's like, oh, but you know, and I was like, well, easier said than done, easier said than done, like I'm.
Speaker 1:Like that's a painful, painful experience, yeah, and there's, and there's so many different Elements to it. It's not just like you had said, it's not just the experience is not just the affair, it was everything around it as well. So I wanted to ask One more question before our final question is You've you touched on it just a little bit earlier on, but how has your relationship changed with your husband? Yeah, that's such a great question.
Speaker 2:I would say it truly, it's transformed. I mean, we we've kept the best parts of ourself and and what we love. You know about our relationship and and, as I said earlier, you feel like In that moment, everything is was a lie, when that's not true, but it's just that overwhelming sense of like well, what else you know? What else did you lie about, what else was happening, what else am I not Aware of? And it's that that blindsided kind of experience that you have. But when you can start to reflect in a healthier state about the fact that you know, we, we did have great experiences, even when it was during the affair. You know, we still had family outings and we still had vacations and we still, you know, had movie nights and we still laughed and like those were real. And I think just asking my husband too about like well, how did you feel when you're, you know, when we were watching that movie and we were all laughing together and he goes, I was right there, I was watching the movie, I was enjoying movie, I enjoyed being with my family, I held your hand because I love you, like I had to remember that there were still good moments and that those were real, but like you were just saying, too, there are things that trigger you, right, like you get triggered by a song or passing, a certain location or a time of year or a smell in the air, and so we would work on the triggers, and I think that that's a really healthy thing. To do, too is like my husband learned about what my triggers were because I shared them. You know, I would say, hey, when I smell that fragrance, it's a triggering thing, Okay, get rid of it. When I see you wearing that shirt that triggers me, okay, easy, get rid of it. I mean, there's certain things that you can't get rid of because they're bigger and more expensive, but but you learn to to change the story.
Speaker 2:You use a lot of mindset, expressions and exercises to reframe the way that you view that situation, and so by having deeper conversations and allowing for each other to to express what we're feeling, thinking, dreaming about, hoping about and not dismissing things, but actually paying attention and leaning in and active listening and putting aside our, you know, devices and giving undivided attention, those things have really helped us to become, you know, healthier and more connected, and I think just doing our own work ourselves as well, and understanding ourselves, like being fully aware of who we are, like, what are our great qualities, and then catching each other in those moments of excellence that we both have and really just appreciating that in each other and saying I really I love when you did that, or thank you for the way that you know that you fixed the toilet, or thank you for listening to me, helping me, supporting me. Like those moments of appreciation are so big and we do them so infrequently, honestly, especially with the people that we love, and especially in our, in our marriage. And it's not about, you know, building up their ego. It's about noticing them and respecting them for who they are and also being not afraid to talk about, you know, the uglier things and the you know the fears that we have, or our disappointments, or what you're doing. That's driving me crazy.
Speaker 2:Like I think that's a good conversation to have too, with like what's it like being on the other side of me? What rubs you the wrong way? You know when are there? Is there anything that I do or say that makes you feel insecure or that makes you, like you know, feel critical or contemptuous? Right, like we have these things where we roll our eyes or we make it like an expression like oh my god, are you kidding me? Or you know we bash our spouses in, you know, when we're talking to our girlfriends? Or like, just don't do that. Edify each other and respect each other and if you have a problem with each other, talk to each other first and then, if you can't solve it together, bring an immediate or bring in accounts or bring in a wise friend.
Speaker 2:Have marriage mentors, like we have a couple that are a little bit older than us, who we really respect and who have, you know, have lived through stuff and have a better marriage for it.
Speaker 2:And we ask them, like what did you guys do in the situation, whether it's finances or parenting? Or, you know, having arguments like know the self-awareness piece of yourself individually and of your spouse is so important. Again, knowing your fight language, knowing your love language, knowing how to support each other, knowing what's going to cause the other person to kind of, you know, disintegrate or fly off the handle. Or, when they're not in a good mood, like, don't expect things that they can't do again. This is a human being. They're not perfect. They're going to make mistakes. Have compassion, have humility, be able to talk about it and then give each other space too. Like, just because your spouse didn't answer your text, you know, within 15 minutes, doesn't mean that he's off having an affair, right, it could just mean that he's stuck in a meeting or he's having a conversation, or he left his phone at like. Whatever it is, don't think the worst, think the best and then ask yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that and I like, as you're talking, I'm like, okay, am I doing these things in my marriage? Are these what we're doing? And I think like I've been married with my husband for 14 years at the end of August, which is wild to me.
Speaker 2:Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Thank you, keep going, keep going and like, honestly, like it is a lot of work and I was 22 when I got married, so I didn't even know who I was when I got married and my husband's nine years older than me and so we really had. He really had to. It's so crazy, like almost watch me grow and become somebody and I also I had to learn how to communicate and communicate with somebody else and ask for help and ask for support from him, from others, and so a lot of things that you're saying is really, really resonating with me and I finally feel in my marriage right now that our communication is really good and I can say some of those icky things. Like I had this weird dream that you had it, like you had an affair, and I actually feel very upset about it all day. And he's like you know, I would never have that and I was like I know, but like I'm, it's not even about that, it's just I'm so taken back about how I feel right now and how it's sitting in my body and so it.
Speaker 1:But it's nice, it's very freeing to have that with my husband, because I think I don't. I don't think I have that with many other people in my life and so I really appreciate our conversation. Thank you, I just really appreciate our conversation today and and you know that shitty things happen to us and they're out of our control, and but we can become such amazing human beings after and learn so much about ourselves and see ourselves in such a different light that we never knew was possible.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly Like we are, we are capable of such resilience. I think the human spirit is really needs to be tested, first of all to see literally how resilient we can be. So the as as as weird as it sounds is, like you know, invite opportunities in where you can be tested, so that you can actually see how, how much strength internally you have and then not be afraid to reach out and ask for help. And, and I think honestly I can say that I feel more beautiful for being broken, for being completely crushed, where I had to rebuild and literally open my hands and say, okay, this happened. Yes, that acceptance piece like if you're going through the grieving stages, you finally have to get to a place where you, like accept it, it did happen, but it doesn't have to define the rest of my life. Right, it's, it's a moment in time, it's a shitty moment in time, but what am I going to do with this moment in time? You know how am I going to become a better, healthier person? How am I going to be a better wife? How am I going to be a better mom? How am I going to be a better friend? You know what am I going to do? That's going to be helpful out there in the community, that because of what I've been through and I'm not saying that, wow, you know, I I wish that I knew this back when I was like I wasn't looking for a book or a podcast or a resource on you know how to have a healthy marriage or how to recover from betrayal, because it wasn't my experience. Then it's not to say that it's not out there, but I have a unique story and I'm not afraid to share it, especially if it's going to be helpful to somebody else. So just identifying with that, you know, brokenness is not is not a travesty. It's not. It's not a weakness, being that place of vulnerability which means the capacity to be wounded. How am I going to then recover? How am I going to resolve this? How many carry on Like what's keeping me grounded? What's?
Speaker 2:I was determined not to have this take me out, although I will tell you that there were days when I would just be like not that I would ever consider suicide, but I was just like you know, being dead would be so much better right now because I wouldn't have to endure this excruciating pain. But thank God that you know I had the people around me and the support and the help, and I was willing, willing to do the things that helped me become a healthier person and and and our marriage. And it's like kintsuki. Do you know the, the Japanese art form, kintsuki? No, okay, so this is like a practical thing that I use when I'm thinking about, so I'm I'm showing this to you right now, but I know that your listeners won't see it, but look up kintsuki and it is a Japanese art form of repairing pottery and what their belief is.
Speaker 2:You don't throw something out just because it broke, right. You're not going to throw your marriage out just because it broke, so that's what it meant to me, but you're going to repair it with gold, and this gold epoxy is shiny, it's strong, it's. Now this has become more valuable and more beautiful because it has a completely different patina, it has character, it has, you know, it has this gold. So every time that we would do something that would repair our marriage, it was like we were putting gold in there. So we weren't making it go away, but we were making it different. And my husband gave me that piece of pottery the Christmas after.
Speaker 2:You know our confession and I just I think this is just so beautiful. So if I can just read this, because there was a card that came with it and it says when we view our lives as sometimes broken, even shattered, we begin to understand that, no matter the trauma, despair, hurt, fear, abuse, failure, addiction, disease and even death, our scars are a part of us. We must look at those breaks as a place for beauty to transpire. Each time we will see that we are more beautiful for being broken. Wow, I know like I almost cry every time I read that and it's it's so helpful because it if you can see your pain as a, as a part of your purpose, I think you can sustain it Like I think you can carry on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. Well, stephanie, thank you so much. Thank you, I truly appreciate it. I appreciate you sharing your story, being vulnerable, with us. You know sharing parts of yourself that maybe you haven't shared with a lot of people. I truly appreciate that. It takes a lot of courage to come here and talk about something that was very substantial in your life and took, you know, a lot of courage to move through it. So, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. My pleasure.
